MWil23 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 yeah, we both dont knwo what the future will bring. why not root for the guy that we did draft? thats my entire point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 11 minutes ago, MWil23 said: To be fair as well, these were the same issues that I had LONG before we drafted him. I'm not going to change my tune just because we did. I'm also not going to bash him anymore the way I did for the four hours after we drafted him. I've gotten that out of my system, unless he becomes a bust. Then, it's obviously turning into this: Like I posted directly above you, he's got a good arm with pinpoint accuracy. As long as he does an incredible job pre-snap (his OU coaches said that he did in college, so I'm optimistic) and throws with anticipation/goes through the right progressions, all while staying healthy, he can and will succeed. fully warranted if this happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 1 minute ago, mistakey said: yeah, we both dont knwo what the future will bring. why not root for the guy that we did draft? thats my entire point I’m rooting for him for sure. I hope he goes out there and rips it up with the awesome surrounding cast we’ve given him and then plants the flag in the middle of Heinz! But honestly, me expressing some reservations about him that I’ve always had, on a forum, isn’t going to effect him or damage his chances of being good. In fact, with the way this world seems to work for me... if I keep doubting the guy and being negative about the pick, karma will surely make him an elite qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt27j Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 With Darnold I'm concerned he won't have the supporting cast he needs. It will be like his final year at usc all over again. Hard to succeed like that. Then people will be saying told you so about Sam which will be bs. On the flip if our coaching is inept sane may end up being said about Baker. IMO though the defense and supporting cast are going to help a lot like the situation Wentz or Watson walked into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reginaldm9 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 We gotta keep composure when Rosen lights it up in year 1. I think he's the only guy out of the five drafted in round 1 who gets a chance to start straight out of the gate this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 1 hour ago, matt27j said: With Darnold I'm concerned he won't have the supporting cast he needs. It will be like his final year at usc all over again. Hard to succeed like that. Then people will be saying told you so about Sam which will be bs. On the flip if our coaching is inept sane may end up being said about Baker. IMO though the defense and supporting cast are going to help a lot like the situation Wentz or Watson walked into. No doubt we have the better offensive situation for a rookie to step into. It’s about as good as a rookie could dream of for an 0-16 team. We are loaded. Sam is only 20. He has nothing around him on the Jets right now but both his and Baker’s stories won’t be written in Year 1. It’ll be some time before they can both be fairly judged against each other, all things considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: For those who want to disregard PFF.... https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/qbase-2018 QBASE is god... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mind Character said: QBASE is god... Ignoring any data that doesn’t support your own person opinion is god..... amirite??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie's Curls Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Baker, Darnold, Rosen, even Allen...quandary for at least 2 years from now. Now, it's where our free agents and draft picks fit it or ship out. Very interested in seeing our re-vamped secondary and post-Joe Thomas line. Both of which will bolster Tyrod/Mayfield's performance if they show some cohesion and aptitude. This is a time of unknown positivity, the seventh heaven where all our draft picks work out in our heads and there isn't any concrete evidence to the contrary. Huzzah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Aztec Hammer said: No doubt we have the better offensive situation for a rookie to step into. It’s about as good as a rookie could dream of for an 0-16 team. We are loaded. Sam is only 20. He has nothing around him on the Jets right now but both his and Baker’s stories won’t be written in Year 1. It’ll be some time before they can both be fairly judged against each other, all things considered. meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDean Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Ignoring any data that doesn’t support your own person opinion is god..... amirite??? You mean like the folks that ignore the baker wind up? Ignore that he said he would absolutely not even consider working in it? He admitted shattered confidence, both verbally from his own mouth and demonstrated at the combine? His questionable decision making at times in tape? His penchant for being a turnover machine? His pedestrian arm strength? Somehow, folks like Aztec overlooked all of these things and see a Frankenstein monster of a QB prospect made of the very best parts of Joe Montana, John Elway, warren moon, dan marino, Tom Brady, Steve young, Brett Favre, Troy aikman, and Aaron Rodgers. there are very few questions about mayfield. He is one of the most complete qb prospects that I have seen in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Ignoring any data that doesn’t support your own person opinion is god..... amirite??? As I've said numerous times, analytics and statistics are beautiful and helpful way to get a grasp on the reality of things, human action, and wide-range of phenomena. And... I welcome the newer trend of the pendulum swinging away from "meathead analytics, smanalytics, numbers and computers know nothing about fumble" to a more quantitative approach to understanding the game. Simply put, no statistical analysis will ever provide the depth of understanding and quality of assessment as a high quality methodology of traditional football play scouting analysis. However, as a person with master's in statistics and a lover of data analysis and analytics, my only gripe is that the pendulum is starting to swing too far in the public's mind where people have forgotten the most important thing about statistical analysis: Statistics Are Contextually Based and Only Have Meaning Within An Understanding of the Context of Human Action They're Pulled From.... Therefore, indices like QBASE or PFF analyses mean nothing without the context of traditional football analysis... and no one asks about the methodology behind these analysis or their predictive efficacy, whose coding the football plays for future analysis... etc.. Statistics can tell whatever story one wants to tell... There is no computation for anticipation throws or who has to have passing lanes opened up through horizontal play action and pocket movement, or how a poor o-line or great offensive coordinator influenced QB outcome. Again, Baker was my 14th ranked player in all the draft, but I'm just of the belief that it means more to cite a particular game tape as evidence of why Baker's skills will translate to the NFL rather than some metric that cannot take into account the full spectrum of realities that influenced the QB or CB or whatever positions play.. This is why traditional football play scouting analysis is supreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, Mind Character said: As I've said numerous times, analytics and statistics are beautiful and helpful way to get a grasp on the reality of things, human action, and wide-range of phenomena. And... I welcome the newer trend of the pendulum swinging away from "meathead analytics, smanalytics, numbers and computers know nothing about fumble" to a more quantitative approach to understanding the game. Simply put, no statistical analysis will ever provide the depth of understanding and quality of assessment as a high quality methodology of traditional football play scouting analysis. However, as a person with master's in statistics and a lover of data analysis and analytics, my only gripe is that the pendulum is starting to swing too far in the public's mind where people have forgotten the most important thing about statistical analysis: Statistics Are Contextually Based and Only Have Meaning Within An Understanding of the Context of Human Action They're Pulled From.... Therefore, indices like QBASE or PFF analyses mean nothing without the context of traditional football analysis... and no one asks about the methodology behind these analysis or their predictive efficacy, whose coding the football plays for future analysis... etc.. Statistics can tell whatever story one wants to tell... There is no computation for anticipation throws or who has to have passing lanes opened up through horizontal play action and pocket movement, or how a poor o-line or great offensive coordinator influenced QB outcome. Again, Baker was my 14th ranked player in all the draft, but I'm just of the belief that it means more to cite a particular game tape as evidence of why Baker's skills will translate to the NFL rather than some metric that cannot take into account the full spectrum of realities that influenced the QB or CB or whatever positions play.. This is why traditional football play scouting analysis is supreme. uh theres tons of arguments in many forums all over the place about the methodology of PFF and all the other ones. like whole sabermetric communities devoted to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 1 hour ago, mistakey said: uh theres tons of arguments in many forums all over the place about the methodology of PFF and all the other ones. like whole sabermetric communities devoted to this. Yep... I know... and there's a ton of football lovers that value traditional football scouting analysis AND have issues with a lot of what PFF does... I've touched on some of the controversies before... PFF provides great value but there are many critical issues that many are overlooking.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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