Packers Off-season Mini-Camp/Training Camp Discussion Thread

[Packerraymond]

57 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

1. We could have signed every single one of those players by restructuring Jordy down to 6 million and still kept our standard roll over.

2. We cut a 33 year old WR to sign a 32 year old TE, a 35 year old CB, and a 29 year old defensive lineman who hasn't been the same in two years since he blew up his leg. Let's cut the age nonsense out of this discussion. 

I'm talking WR, we added Moore, MVS and St Brown to a group of already young guys. I don't think they seriously pursued any of the big guys. I identified Robinson as a guy who might be a bargain coming off the ACL, I bet Gute did too, we were wrong. Watkins too, high draft pick and never put it together, well he got paid like he has.

If they wanted another WR they could've added Dez or Maclin for a bargain and got the same decent production Jordy would've got us this year.

I think they like the flexibility they have next year, wanted a pool of cap to bargain with Aaron and just flat out felt Jordy was bad value. I can't find a single fault with the move.

[Norm]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

1. We could have signed every single one of those players by restructuring Jordy down to 6 million and still kept our standard roll over.

2. We cut a 33 year old WR to sign a 32 year old TE, a 35 year old CB, and a 29 year old defensive lineman who hasn't been the same in two years since he blew up his leg. Let's cut the age nonsense out of this discussion. 

God why we didn't do number one is depressing to me.

[AlexGreen#20]

8 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I'm talking WR, we added Moore, MVS and St Brown to a group of already young guys. I don't think they seriously pursued any of the big guys. I identified Robinson as a guy who might be a bargain coming off the ACL, I bet Gute did too, we were wrong. Watkins too, high draft pick and never put it together, well he got paid like he has.

If they wanted another WR they could've added Dez or Maclin for a bargain and got the same decent production Jordy would've got us this year.

I think they like the flexibility they have next year, wanted a pool of cap to bargain with Aaron and just flat out felt Jordy was bad value. I can't find a single fault with the move.

Why the hell do people keep saying that because we drafted guys at those positions, it means getting rid of competent veterans a good idea?? We're doing it with Randall and now we're doing it with Jordy. What about the presence of Jordy Nelson on this football team prevents you from drafting those same players? We didn't trade Nelson for draft picks. We didn't get a comp pick for Jordy walking that we then used on a receiver. 

It doesn't tell you something that Dez and Maclin still aren't signed when Jordy was signed within a week of hitting the open market? 

If this team decided it was going to start Geronimo Allison at WR rather than Jordy Nelson in order to save 4 million dollars in cap space this year, that seems like a very questionable decision to me. 

[Leader]

14 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Why the hell do people keep saying that because we drafted guys at those positions, it means getting rid of competent veterans a good idea?? We're doing it with Randall and now we're doing it with Jordy. What about the presence of Jordy Nelson on this football team prevents you from drafting those same players? We didn't trade Nelson for draft picks. We didn't get a comp pick for Jordy walking that we then used on a receiver. 

It doesn't tell you something that Dez and Maclin still aren't signed when Jordy was signed within a week of hitting the open market? 

If this team decided it was going to start Geronimo Allison at WR rather than Jordy Nelson in order to save 4 million dollars in cap space this year, that seems like a very questionable decision to me. 

I dont think it was monetary at all. IMO they could have worked a deal for Nelson if they wanted him. I believe they saw (or felt) he'd reached the end of the tunnel and wanted to move on / get young.

[wgbeethree]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Jimmy Graham has nothing to do with this discussion. 

I think he does. I think he and Jordy are both primarily red zone threats at this point. They do the same things well. If the FO feels the same way they essentially got bigger and slightly younger and cheaper there. I think Graham will be doing a lot of what they had Jordy doing early last year. Those two are sort of redundant despite playing different position.

[Norm]

9 minutes ago, wgbeethree said:

I think he does. I think he and Jordy are both primarily red zone threats at this point. They do the same things well. If the FO feels the same way they essentially got bigger and slightly younger and cheaper there. I think Graham will be doing a lot of what they had Jordy doing early last year. Those two are sort of redundant despite playing different position.

I get where you're going with that and although I don't agree a ton, this team isn't better without Jordy on it. And we could have afforded and found a role for him. Seems to me we shot big and missed. I know there's talk we just wanted to move out, but if the plan was we just needed to get out and the primary plan was 3 late rookies and and Allison, they're idiots. I don't believe they are idiots and they had a feeling they could get a guy there. But it fell through, no hate there, happens. But then hold Jordy until you really know. Otherwise you end up where we are, which isn't hell, but we could have been better off pretty easily while still having an out with Nelson if we got something better. 

We could have waited long past now even to move on.

[Gopackgonerd]

29 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

 

If this team decided it was going to start Geronimo Allison at WR rather than Jordy Nelson in order to save 4 million dollars in cap space this year, that seems like a very questionable decision to me. 

But they didn't decide that Allison is starting, that's why they drafted 3 recievers to compete to start. Clearly they wanted to get younger, bigger and faster on the outside. Jordy is a big loss, but I'm guessing the new FO guys wanted to get other types of player for the outside as much as it sticks to the craw to some of us.

[AlexGreen#20]

16 minutes ago, wgbeethree said:

I think he does. I think he and Jordy are both primarily red zone threats at this point. They do the same things well. If the FO feels the same way they essentially got bigger and slightly younger and cheaper there. I think Graham will be doing a lot of what they had Jordy doing early last year. Those two are sort of redundant despite playing different position.

I can't think of any passing situation where I am in the red zone that I would rather have 2 redzone threats on the field as opposed to 3. 

[Norm]

4 minutes ago, Gopackgonerd said:

But they didn't decide that Allison is starting, that's why they drafted 3 recievers to compete to start. Clearly they wanted to get younger, bigger and faster on the outside. Jordy is a big loss, but I'm guessing the new FO guys wanted to get other types of player for the outside as much as it sticks to the craw to some of us.

Do you think that was their primary though? Like hey let's cut Jordy and use Allison and draft 3 day WRs to replace him?

 

[AlexGreen#20]

19 minutes ago, Leader said:

I dont think it was monetary at all. IMO they could have worked a deal for Nelson if they wanted him. I believe they saw (or felt) he'd reached the end of the tunnel and wanted to move on / get young.

If it was purely about reps, the rookies should have to take those reps rather than having them handed out. 

[AlexGreen#20]

4 minutes ago, Gopackgonerd said:

But they didn't decide that Allison is starting, that's why they drafted 3 recievers to compete to start. Clearly they wanted to get younger, bigger and faster on the outside. Jordy is a big loss, but I'm guessing the new FO guys wanted to get other types of player for the outside as much as it sticks to the craw to some of us.

If this team decided that it was going to start Geronimo Allison (or one of 3 Day-3 rookies) rather than Jordy Nelson in order to save 4 million in cap space this year, that seems like a very questionable decision to me.

 

Better?

[blankman0021]

56 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I'm talking WR, we added Moore, MVS and St Brown to a group of already young guys. I don't think they seriously pursued any of the big guys. I identified Robinson as a guy who might be a bargain coming off the ACL, I bet Gute did too, we were wrong. Watkins too, high draft pick and never put it together, well he got paid like he has.

If they wanted another WR they could've added Dez or Maclin for a bargain and got the same decent production Jordy would've got us this year.

I think they like the flexibility they have next year, wanted a pool of cap to bargain with Aaron and just flat out felt Jordy was bad value. I can't find a single fault with the move.

Well said, IMO. I’m on the same page as you with that line of thinking. 

[Leader]

2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

If it was purely about reps, the rookies should have to take those reps rather than having them handed out. 

I think I understand your comment to mean the rookies shouldnt have had their reps just handed them (by Jordy's absence) - right?

Well for me its not about reps at all - its about the teams estimation of what Jordy has left in the tank.

As for your other comment about how many red zone targets are on the field at one time - I think you overlooked Cobb - who pulls down his fair share of TD's.

[Norm]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

I can't find a single fault with the move.

I'm fine with it until this last line...

We no longer have Jordy, could afford him, now it's Allison, late rookies, and whatever other scrubs. 

Seems like a fault to me?

Let's say he takes 7 mil to stay.. Are we better now with 7 mil and no Jordy? I don't think so.. Can it pay off later? Well sure. But the way FA is priced you aren't getting crap for around 7 anyways.

I think we tried to hit a home run, that's fine, but not only did we swing and miss, we called our shot before it. That's just my feel.

[Norm]

2 minutes ago, Leader said:

I think I understand your comment to mean the rookies shouldnt have had their reps just handed them (by Jordy's absence) - right?

Well for me its not about reps at all - its about the teams estimation of what Jordy has left in the tank.

As for your other comment about how many red zone targets are on the field at one time - I think you overlooked Cobb - who pulls down his fair share of TD's.

This is what bothers me: okay if you really believe he's just done and what we drafted and Allison can replace him (I really really disagree) and you aren't even going to spend that money, why cut him so early? I have to believe they had a plan for that money because of that timing.