Ozzy Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 On 1/31/2018 at 9:09 PM, BleedTheClock said: He reminds me of old DeAngelo Williams for some reason. Just pretty solid at everything, but not trait-based. Very tough kid that is built for the NFL game, but I don't care for any RB's that don't have standout traits. You can find Darrell Williams in free agency in June. He's a good player, but not good enough to find his way into a starting role. What Darrel Williams did this year at FB for LSU I was very interested in. Could be a hell of a weapon at that spot, and can switch back and play TB as well, great build and will not be the 1st LSU back to not have a great college career but because of his size and build will find his way onto a roster and stick around. Alfred Blue and Spencer Ware and some what with Stevan Ridley have done well at times despite not having great or consistent college careers, kind of got lost in the shuffle at RB on LSU for injury or other reasons. Would be surprised to see Williams not drafted at his build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris_kapsner Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 According to those at the Senior Bowl, Kalen Ballage was a BEAST there. His stats in college really didn't impress. But he has the physical traits to be amazing. And it sounded like he was putting on a show for the NFL coaches and scouts at the Senior Bowl. One scout apparently compared his ability to David Johnson! How you guys feel about him at the next level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 14 minutes ago, kris_kapsner said: According to those at the Senior Bowl, Kalen Ballage was a BEAST there. His stats in college really didn't impress. But he has the physical traits to be amazing. And it sounded like he was putting on a show for the NFL coaches and scouts at the Senior Bowl. One scout apparently compared his ability to David Johnson! How you guys feel about him at the next level? I think he's a straight line runner with great hands out of the backfield. He's got long speed and #1 WR size. He's a strange prospect without a real easy NFL comparison. David Johnson is much more elusive than Ballage. Ballage really struggles to cut and move laterally. I think that's a major difference in their playing styles right now which is why I'm apprehensive about making that comparison. Ballage is LaTavius Murray, but with the receiving skills of a David Johnson. I think he's going to be good. Was kind of hoping he remained under the radar, but he lit up the Senior Bowl apparently and I'm guessing he takes a giant poop on everyone at the combine (low 4.4 speed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDOG_det Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: David Johnson is much more elusive than Ballage. Ballage really struggles to cut and move laterally Not really. Ballage jump-cuts the same way that David Johnson does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 minute ago, IDOG_det said: Not really. Ballage jump-cuts the same way that David Johnson does. Don't see it. Unless Johnson sucks at it. Ballage can jump cut, but he doesn't go anywhere afterwards. He's too lumbering and runs too high. If he had lateral agility, he would be going in the top 20. Even in the Senior Bowl I saw him try to bounce one outside, but couldn't get his momentum moving after his cut and was tackled at the LOS or in the backfield. What makes David Johnson so good is that he remains low and explosive out of his cuts and can transition from moving laterally to moving forward at a high rate of speed. Ballage is still lacking in that department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDOG_det Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 27 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: Don't see it. Unless Johnson sucks at it. Ballage can jump cut, but he doesn't go anywhere afterwards. He's too lumbering and runs too high. If he had lateral agility, he would be going in the top 20. Even in the Senior Bowl I saw him try to bounce one outside, but couldn't get his momentum moving after his cut and was tackled at the LOS or in the backfield. What makes David Johnson so good is that he remains low and explosive out of his cuts and can transition from moving laterally to moving forward at a high rate of speed. Ballage is still lacking in that department. https://twitter.com/junioraumanac/status/956260459249831936 https://twitter.com/junioraumanac/status/956386193222103040 https://twitter.com/JonValencia_WiB/status/958221046112399360 https://twitter.com/jayofficial2k/status/957347181668851717 https://twitter.com/lifesyourcup/status/950566308378062848 https://twitter.com/lifesyourcup/status/939428703603277824 Lateral movement looks fine to me. Balance looks fine to me. Ballage was overweight at ASU because they wanted him to be some oversized power back when in reality he needs to just be used like any other runningback. He got to a better weight at the senior bowl and it's clear to see he's moving even better now. He's taller than David Johnson so naturally he's going to play taller, but his jump-cutting is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, kris_kapsner said: According to those at the Senior Bowl, Kalen Ballage was a BEAST there. His stats in college really didn't impress. But he has the physical traits to be amazing. And it sounded like he was putting on a show for the NFL coaches and scouts at the Senior Bowl. One scout apparently compared his ability to David Johnson! How you guys feel about him at the next level? Not sure if that was a scout's take ....I think it was radio guy Jim Miller who kept bringing up the David Johnson comp. Ballage is like a better Dorin Dickerson. I think he'd make a bigger impact as a TE/FB or even WR, than runner out of the backfield. It might be a coaching issue but he consistently ran too high and lacked physicality through the hole at Arizona St. It was clear the coaches preferred Demario Richard when they needed to get tough yards. Being too high also causes him balance issues. As a runner, I think he's like a less physical Matt Jones. At the start of the season I was crushing on him and figured he'd be a top 5 RB easily....but his lack of vision and physicality this year eventually made him the change of pace guy to likely UDFA Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDOG_det Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 29 minutes ago, BrownLeader said: It was clear the coaches preferred Demario Richard when they needed to get tough yards. Those same coaches got fired for not being good at their job, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlash Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 2 hours ago, IDOG_det said: Those same coaches got fired for not being good at their job, so... That's a pretty weak counterpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDOG_det Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Jlash said: That's a pretty weak counterpoint. I mean he's clearly better than Demario Richard. He was clearly the best player on that offense. They didn't know how to use him (which is mind blowing) and that was a significant reason behind why they got fired. You can call it a weak counterpoint, it doesn't matter. The reality is that he was improperly used and blaming him for that misuse is ridiculous. Saying he isn't physical is blatantly false. Saying he has bad vision is a mischaracterization of him trying to find yards behind a poor offensive line in an even worse scheme. Look at what he was able to do in an environment that wasn't a joke at the Senior Bowl. He didn't lose playing time to Demario Richard because he wasn't physical enough, or because he wasn't running to the right holes, or because he isn't as good. He simply lost playing time to him because the people in charge of deciding who got how much playing time were morons. And it isn't a coincidence that those same decision makers got fired in favor of an ESPN TV character that is so outdated that he didn't know jerseys were made to fit tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlash Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 32 minutes ago, IDOG_det said: I mean he's clearly better than Demario Richard. He was clearly the best player on that offense. They didn't know how to use him (which is mind blowing) and that was a significant reason behind why they got fired. You can call it a weak counterpoint, it doesn't matter. The reality is that he was improperly used and blaming him for that misuse is ridiculous. Saying he isn't physical is blatantly false. Saying he has bad vision is a mischaracterization of him trying to find yards behind a poor offensive line in an even worse scheme. Look at what he was able to do in an environment that wasn't a joke at the Senior Bowl. He didn't lose playing time to Demario Richard because he wasn't physical enough, or because he wasn't running to the right holes, or because he isn't as good. He simply lost playing time to him because the people in charge of deciding who got how much playing time were morons. And it isn't a coincidence that those same decision makers got fired in favor of an ESPN TV character that is so outdated that he didn't know jerseys were made to fit tight. If the system was so bad, and the scheme was so bad, and the surrounding talent was so bad why was Richard, for the most part, the more productive college runner? It wasn't like some sheer enormous volume gap to sway numbers. Someone with such a superior talent level (I'm agreeing there, Ballage is clearly the more physically talented player) should have produced better results on a touch by touch basis than a less talented counterpart right? Was Richard playing with different players in a different scheme with different coaches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDOG_det Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 57 minutes ago, Jlash said: If the system was so bad, and the scheme was so bad, and the surrounding talent was so bad why was Richard, for the most part, the more productive college runner? It wasn't like some sheer enormous volume gap to sway numbers. Someone with such a superior talent level (I'm agreeing there, Ballage is clearly the more physically talented player) should have produced better results on a touch by touch basis than a less talented counterpart right? Was Richard playing with different players in a different scheme with different coaches? There were different plays designed for them. ASU didn't know how to use Ballage, they actually had something decent going with him in the wildcat but they never expanded on plays using similar schemes. Their offense is designed to spread the defense out and be quick hitting. The RB is expected mostly to just take the handoff, find somewhere to run, hope the OL doesn't crap their pants, and then make multiple cuts to make multiple defenders miss. It is a laterally based running game that expects the RB to run toward the sideline and then either beat the defenders to the edge (hard to do when you've spread out the defense) or again make multiple cuts to make multiple defenders miss. Ballage is a better fit for schemes that are based vertically like gap schemes, power schemes, inside zones, etc. Ballage is better reading blocks as they develop and following a generally designed running path instead of having to create everything for himself in a scheme that's basically not a scheme. That type of running scheme works really well with 100lb midget RB's that have the skill set to fit that. Jamal Morrow with Washington State is a great example, he fit perfectly in that kind of scheme and gave them an effective running game as a result. Demario Richard is the same kind of player, his skill set is designed for that kind of offense and that offense is designed for his kind of skill set. Half of their running game is just sad zone-reads that have zero threat of the QB keeping the ball giving the LB's a clear shot to go make the tackle on the RB. Watch their games and you can see the difference. Watch them run their poorly designed zone reads and watch all the LB's key in on Ballage. They even try adding in "window-dressing" jet motions and the LB's completely have no respect for it and let the motion man go free into the flat so they can stay keyed in on Ballage. Then watch them run a power play every once in a while and you'll see Ballage get 10+ yards in spite of poor blocking. Start with this one you'll see those exact things in the first minute of the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlash Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 3 hours ago, IDOG_det said: That type of running scheme works really well with 100lb midget RB's that have the skill set to fit that But isn't Richard in the 220 range? 3 hours ago, IDOG_det said: Jamal Morrow with Washington State is a great example, he fit perfectly in that kind of scheme and gave them an effective running game as a result. Demario Richard is the same kind of player, his skill set is designed for that kind of offense and that offense is designed for his kind of skill set. So he's 220 lbs with the quickness of a 190 lb player? I can't tell who you're hyping up more. The excuses for Ballage or accidentally for Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlash Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Also I don't really care one way or another. I think Ballage would probably make a great receiver. I was just pointing out how it's sounds more like excuses than anything. He's a physical specimen, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Yeah the coaches like Richard because he was more physical and hard to bring down compared to Ballage. Is Ballage a Joe Mixon type talent who can run and catch the football as a big tall running back? Maybe but not at that level, really Ballage was very disappointing this past year I think, he should of had a much better season as a senior. Sure maybe he was not used the correct way, but would be nice to see some more production. Jordan Howard got injured and is mostly why he dropped in the draft, still showed great production and running ability in college. Ballage never has taken that next step similar to James Wilder Jr on FSU a few years back. Really impressive at times, such a big strong athletic kid but obviously lacked some toughness and natural running ability and Ballage might be the same way. Same with Karlos Williams as well, still pissed about him not playing defense but whatever. Really athletic kid, could make big plays but was never a natural running back and was not consistent. See how Ballage does, obviously a interesting talent but the consistency is just not there at all. Could easily say Ryan Nall at times showed more natural running ability and potential than Ballage as a tall back, but Nall gets hurt a lot as well. I would take Bo Scarbrough or Kamryn Pettway as big backs over Ballage as well and neither one are very natural runner but they have some toughness to them and power. Ballage does not seem to have much of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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