Dr LBC Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Jlash said: Meh, lots of guys run in the 4.5's and go in the first don't they? Especially for a big guy. Benjamin ran a 4.61 and he was fine. I wouldn't say lots. Guys with elite production and pedigree (I'm not talking just "size," I'm talking program, success within program, etc.) - a great example of this is Nuk Hopkins. However, you also tend to see teams more willing to make that reach on guys who break the 4.4 threshold. Guys like Treadwell (4.63), Benjamin (4.61), and Hopkins are the only 3 examples in the last like 6-7 years, IIRC. Hopkins visibly had "it;" and even I'll own up to not thinking at the time he'd be as dominant as he's shown to be able to be (even with the college tape he had), while the other two were the 5th and 4th receivers off the board, respectively. Tate is bordering on Keenan Allen for me (and I love Keenan Allen, but he's not the prototype that people fall over themselves to get) where he probably can be a #1, but he's going to need to go to the right situation, because he's not of the like of a Julio, OBJ, or AJ Green where he can do it all himself in any situation. (Note: I don't bring up Antonio Brown in draft discussions ever by design because I feel he's such an anomaly and should be treated as an exception, definitely not a rule) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 On 12/12/2017 at 5:42 PM, The LBC said: I wouldn't say lots. Guys with elite production and pedigree (I'm not talking just "size," I'm talking program, success within program, etc.) - a great example of this is Nuk Hopkins. However, you also tend to see teams more willing to make that reach on guys who break the 4.4 threshold. Guys like Treadwell (4.63), Benjamin (4.61), and Hopkins are the only 3 examples in the last like 6-7 years, IIRC. Hopkins visibly had "it;" and even I'll own up to not thinking at the time he'd be as dominant as he's shown to be able to be (even with the college tape he had), while the other two were the 5th and 4th receivers off the board, respectively. Tate is bordering on Keenan Allen for me (and I love Keenan Allen, but he's not the prototype that people fall over themselves to get) where he probably can be a #1, but he's going to need to go to the right situation, because he's not of the like of a Julio, OBJ, or AJ Green where he can do it all himself in any situation. (Note: I don't bring up Antonio Brown in draft discussions ever by design because I feel he's such an anomaly and should be treated as an exception, definitely not a rule) I really think people get too caught up with the "prototype." I watch guys like Allen, Kupp, Hopkins, Michael Thomas (NO), etc. get open all day long, and I wonder why teams don't value those guys like they should. At some point, being a great football player needs to be considered more important than how fast you run in a straight line. I haven't delved into Gallup's film to know if he's worth mentioning with that group yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 12 hours ago, jrry32 said: I really think people get too caught up with the "prototype." I watch guys like Allen, Kupp, Hopkins, Michael Thomas (NO), etc. get open all day long, and I wonder why teams don't value those guys like they should. At some point, being a great football player needs to be considered more important than how fast you run in a straight line. I haven't delved into Gallup's film to know if he's worth mentioning with that group yet. Route running. Honestly, that's probably the part that doesn't get evaluated effectively, and that's in large part due to the sheer amount of spread offenses in the NFL. And I think it's a skillset that most people feel they can teach. You can't teach speed. And with speed, you have the ability to effectively attack a defense vertically. If you can't attack vertically, that frees the defense up to bring a safety or two closer to the LOS which makes it even harder to run the ball. And then you've got guys like Laquon Treadwell, Kelvin Benjamin, etc. who are big, but they're not strong route runners or overly fast. Their upside is limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 13 hours ago, jrry32 said: I really think people get too caught up with the "prototype." I watch guys like Allen, Kupp, Hopkins, Michael Thomas (NO), etc. get open all day long, and I wonder why teams don't value those guys like they should. At some point, being a great football player needs to be considered more important than how fast you run in a straight line. I haven't delved into Gallup's film to know if he's worth mentioning with that group yet. I agree, but I wasn't talking about fans, I'm talking about an observation, sadly, of a solid 30+% of scouting departments. We're starting to see these guys make it through via a number of the younger GM's (not sure I'd include Rick Smith in there, but he was young-er when he drafted Nuk - but also similarly sunk a higher, order-wise, pick into Will Fuller). A lot of older scouts, GM's, and personnel folks still clinging around from the days when the Gold Standard was Al Davis snapping up them H/W/S guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 WR is quickly becoming one of if not the toughest position to scout for me. The variables surrounding quarterback, offensive system, and opponent really skew a what a player's true ability is. The same variables also affect their NFL success. Unless a prospect is an AJ Green, Julio Jones, or Calvin Johnson level prospect, it's really tough to tell how they'll translate to the league given all the different things that can accelerate or stunt their growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchDJ Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 What round do you guys see Cedrick Wilson going in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elusive_Tiger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 13 minutes ago, ClutchDJ said: What round do you guys see Cedrick Wilson going in? I'd draft him in the 2nd round but he's probably going round 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDOG_det Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 7 hours ago, ClutchDJ said: What round do you guys see Cedrick Wilson going in? No clue when he's going to go, but he looks like a damn good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHambone Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 On 12/12/2017 at 4:38 PM, BrettFavre004 said: Watched some video's of Michael Gallup. He and Deon Cain really the only two standing out to me so far. I think Gallup is clearly the best WR in this class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YogiBiz Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 No love for Simmie Cobbs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, YogiBiz said: No love for Simmie Cobbs? I like Cobbs. His game reminds me a lot of Joe Jurevicius, who was 6'5 and 230 pounds, similar to Cobbs who is in the 6'4 225 frame, to be honest. He'll probably be a 2nd round big bodied/possession WR with a major positive impact in the Red Zone. He's a great WR#2, but I don't know that he'll be a game changer "big play" guy/run after catch guy, which is fine. He's also harder to gauge athletically with some lower body injuries. Maybe he's more athletic than I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elusive_Tiger Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 What does Mike Evans definitively do better than Tate, if anything? How would you guys compare their burst off the LOS, creating separation and YAC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 On 12/18/2017 at 1:33 AM, ClutchDJ said: What round do you guys see Cedrick Wilson going in? Depends on how fast he actually is. If he runs well I could see 3rd or 4th. If not, late rounder. 1 hour ago, Elusive_Tiger said: What does Mike Evans definitively do better than Tate, if anything? How would you guys compare their burst off the LOS, creating separation and YAC? As prospects? Evans was more agile and quicker in and out of breaks, off the line and faster down the field. And he was markedly clutch, routinely making big conversions in the big moments. Tate is more like a less explosive Kelvin Benjamin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 So, anyone want to set an early O/U on how many times NFL commentators mis-name Deon Cain as "Dean Cain"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchDJ Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 37 minutes ago, BrownLeader said: Depends on how fast he actually is. If he runs well I could see 3rd or 4th. If not, late rounder. Or 4th? Gotta, admit you’re the first person I’ve seen that has him that low. Thank you for the response, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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