Preseason Week 3

[HTTRDynasty]

38 minutes ago, megatechpc said:

Oh please, no performance in preseason is going to be taken very seriously, especially when coaches and GMs have a full game of tape on him playing out of his mind in the freaking SB.  That's just an asinine take right there, and I can't stand Foles or the Eagles.

No, not really.  Foles has never looked good outside of a scheme with extremely easy reads and trick plays.  

The preseason helps allow us to see the QB he is when he doesn't have a great OC/HC focused on out-scheming their opponent.  Looks a hell of a lot more like Rams Nick Foles.  He's valuable to the Eagles, but he wouldn't be anywhere near as valuable on most other teams.

[beekay414]

Did the Browns permanently remove the stripe from their helmets or is it a pre-season thing?

[megatechpc]

41 minutes ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said:

No, not really.  Foles has never looked good outside of a scheme with extremely easy reads and trick plays.  

The preseason helps allow us to see the QB he is when he doesn't have a great OC/HC focused on out-scheming their opponent.  Looks a hell of a lot more like Rams Nick Foles.  He's valuable to the Eagles, but he wouldn't be anywhere near as valuable on most other teams.

My point is that judging a QB's ability on any one preseason performance is problematic at best, not just Foles.  Some guys light it up in preseason but can't buy a completion in the regular season and vice versa.  Forgetting the fact that preseason games are already of dubious value to begin with, each stage of a season presents a completely different atmosphere that different QBs perform at different levels during.  Preseason is relatively no pressure, the beginning of the regular season is much more stressful.  Then the middle-to-late season sees that pressure amp up exponentially to the end (if the QB is in the playoff hunt).  Then the playoffs present another exponential jump in pressure, culminating with the SB which of course presents the most challenging atmosphere of any game in any season.  Some QBs play like crap when it doesn't really matter (Brady and Wilson are famous for being average early in the year) but get better and better as it becomes more meaningful (Brady and Wilson are among the best QBs in the league in December and January). 

My point is, any one great or terrible performance in a preseason game is not really going to enhance or destroy any veteran QBs reputation.  As a Falcons fan awaiting the season-opener versus the Eagles (and likely Foles starting), I would love to sit here and say that he is going to be awful and we should have an easy time stopping him like the Browns did tonight, but I know better than to think he will be anything like he was in preseason in the opener.

[megatechpc]

6 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Did the Browns permanently remove the stripe from their helmets or is it a pre-season thing?

In Hard Knocks Hue Jackson told the team that they each have to individually "earn their stripes" throughout the Browns training camp.  Its a cliched notion I admit, but I think its kinda neat.  I'm sure the stripes will be there on the regular season helmets though.

[beekay414]

1 minute ago, megatechpc said:

In Hard Knocks Hue Jackson told the team that they each have to individually "earn their stripes" throughout the Browns training camp.  Its a cliched notion I admit, but I think its kinda neat.  I'm sure the stripes will be there on the regular season helmets though.

Damn. I was hoping they would keep them the way they are. I like them a lot better.

[JAF-N72EX]

2 hours ago, Nabbs4u said:

While this "could" have an effect so does not playing any of your Starting RB's or WR's. I'm more concerned with Alshon, Agholor, Sproles, Clement, Ajahi, and Peters still not playing week 3 of the preseason then losing the two coaches above.

Not saying you're wrong in thinking this way, because your not, and it is only the pre-season (albeit the 3rd game and the most important of them all). But I also get the feeling that you are also undermining the effects that a staff's philosophy and preparation can have on a player/teams performance. (And feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that-- that's just how i'm taking it by what you said). 

Pederson may call the plays on offense on game day and set the tone for the team strategy and the philosophy behind it, based on how he envisions it. But it's the coordinators and sub-coordinators who get the players better prepared to play in a certain way that aligns with that philosophy. Everyone has to be on the same page.

If they don't truly believe in or trust the HC's direction of the team and/or philosophy then they're not going to teach those players under them to play within that same system and that's where the disconnect and confusion starts among the players and staff, which ultimately ends up a complete mess. As a Bears fan who has seen his teams ST unit go from one of the best in league for many years to barely mid-card now after Toub left, I can attest to this.

This brings me to another point. Everyone always talks about how "the players have to buy-in into the system". Well, in essence, all of the sub-coaches also have to do the same thing in order to do their jobs properly and when they do fully buy-in, they get great results and Defilippo and Reich did just that. They believed in Pederson's strategy and followed through with it, to a T.  

But what happens when those sub-coaches who trusted and believed in the system happen leave? Are you going to get those same reactions and results from their replacements as you did with the former staff? Are they going to be as committed as Riech and Defilippo were? 

 

 

[Nabbs4u]

4 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

If they don't truly believe in or trust the HC's direction of the team and/or philosophy then they're not going to teach those players under them to play within that same system and that's where the disconnect and confusion starts among the players and staff, which ultimately ends up a complete mess. As a Bears fan who has seen his teams ST unit go from one of the best in league for many years to barely mid-card now after Toub left, I can attest to this.

This brings me to another point. Everyone always talks about how "the players have to buy-in into the system". Well, in essence, all of the sub-coaches also have to do the same thing in order to do their jobs properly and when they do fully buy-in, they get great results and Defilippo and Reich did just that. They believed in Pederson's strategy and followed through with it, to a T.  

But what happens when those sub-coaches who trusted and believed in the system happen leave? Are you going to get those same reactions and results from their replacements as you did with the former staff? Are they going to be as committed as Riech and Defilippo were? 

Coming off what was considered by most as a Brilliant job of Coaching throughout the playoffs, why wouldn't players who just achieved the ultimate goal buy in to what DP is selling? Why would Groh who was the WR's coach on that same staff and now OC, not buy in and teach what he is selling? Same with Press Taylor as the QB coach? Did they both not buy in last season?

Yes Brewers is the new WR Coach so I guess there's a possibility it could occur but do you honestly think coming off a SB Win and straight out of college, Gunter would have the balls? The stupidity to rock the boat? Try to do "his own things" with those same players?

I'm not suggesting it won't have "any" impact but if there is it has nothing to do with their preseason performances thus far IMO. Lack of talent ,playmakers and actual Starters at the WR/RB positions on the field does. That's all.

[megatechpc]

I am the first guy to say the preseason is meaningless and nobody should overreact to anything you see during this part of the season.  But I am wondering a little bit about a possible SB hangover for the Eagles.  Just getting to the SB is grueling and requires a ramp up of intensity and desire at every step of the way, so when the new season comes around that high is gone and everything is reset back to zero.  As a Falcons fan I can tell you that it took a while for the team to look right last year after their SB appearance.  Obviously they lost that game (in about as heart breaking a fashion as possible) so I am not saying that the Eagles, who are the champs, are facing the same situation.  Rather the opposite actually.  I just wonder if that intensity and desire is still going to be as high as it was last year since they are the champs now.  Obviously they want to win just like every team does, but now they have a target on their backs AND they already won it all, so could it be that they won't play quite as intensely as they did down the stretch last year?  Its now less than two weeks til Falcons vs Eagles in game 1 and I believe the Falcons are an extremely hungry team because they feel they had their championship taken away from them just two years ago.  I can't wait to see how both teams play in the game!

[JAF-N72EX]

2 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

Coming off what was considered by most as a Brilliant job of Coaching throughout the playoffs, why wouldn't players who just achieved the ultimate goal buy in to what DP is selling?

For the same reasons that most teams fail to reach those goals which could expand, but not limited to, from everything to; injuries, poor execution, poor evaluation, not changing the game plan from previous years (this is the biggest issue, imo). 

We see it all of the time with teams who may look like they are ready to take that step based off of one year and then fall flat the next to never again retain that same success. And all of that starts with the staff.

9 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

Why would Groh who was the WR's coach on that same staff and now OC, not buy in and teach what he is selling? Same with Press Taylor as the QB coach? Did they both not buy in last season?

Did guys like Hundley for the Giants make a difference? That's a rhetorical question.

The higher the staff position, the more responsibility. Even if a staff member takes on a higher position does not guarantee that they're going to be as successful at their newly found job as they were in their previous one. 

We see it all the time with coaches who are very good coordinators and some of the best in the business at what they do. But the minute they step into that higher role, they fail. (Marinelli, Wade, ect)  

You gotta know when to stay in your lane.

[iknowcool]

Bless anyone who watched Browns/Eagles in full last night.  You’re a true football fan.

[HTTRDynasty]

7 hours ago, megatechpc said:

Text

I think my point went right over your head.  I don't expect him to be awful for the Eagles week 1.  I would expect him to be awful for a team like the Buccs or Browns week 1, however.  Or any team without an innovative OC/HC.  Which creates an imbalance between his value to the Eagles vs. his value to another team.  Which lowers his trade value.

 

EDIT:  Even Pederson seems more worried than you do:

Quote

 

The Eagles somehow coaxed the best possible performance out of quarterback Nick Foles through three 2017 postseason games. Through three 2018 preseason games, it’s been a much different story.

Foles has played like anything but a Super Bowl MVP, but instead a lot like the guy who was a disappointment during donut-hole years with the Rams and Chiefs.

Asked by Erin Andrews of FOX whether Foles would enter the third quarter of Thursday’s preseason game against the Browns, coach Doug Pederson said, “I’m done. I’ve seen enough.”

Andrews asked Pederson to explain Foles struggles.

“I don’t know,” Pederson said. “It’s very disappointing. He was calm before the game, I thought he’d settled in.”

 

 

[Pugger]

8 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

Seriously, 5-0? Like for real? 5-0.

Sheesh.

The Indians beat the Phillies...  

[Hunter2_1]

7 hours ago, megatechpc said:

In Hard Knocks Hue Jackson told the team that they each have to individually "earn their stripes" throughout the Browns training camp.  Its a cliched notion I admit, but I think its kinda neat.  I'm sure the stripes will be there on the regular season helmets though.

Interesting. Still waiting for Hue to earn his.

[Bonanza23]

9 hours ago, bigbadbuff23835 said:

Give them time to prove it. I hope to God they do. As a Buffalo fan i always root for Cleveland, i hope it’s Bills vs Browns in the AFC championship game for the next decade. 

I’m hoping for Buffalo to be good also. I’m old enough to remember the Browns and Bills being a semi rivalry. Was mainly a Kosar vs Kelly thing, but it was fun. Especially since my best friend back in those days had family up there and there were some good times that I can’t exactly mention in here!

[Bonanza23]

7 hours ago, beekay414 said:

Damn. I was hoping they would keep them the way they are. I like them a lot better.

We’re supposed to get new uniforms in 2020 in order to get rid of these atrocities. You’re not the first to like the no stripes helmet.