ET80 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 November 26, 1986. Mike Tyson vs Trevor Berbick. On this day, Mike Tyson is the deadliest person in human history - there is not a person in the past or present that could beat him in a fight, regardless of discipline. The way he manhandled the WBC World Heavyweight Champion is scary. Trevor Berbick is the best figher in the world at this time, and Tyson dismantles him from the opening bell. At that moment, young Mike Tyson reaches a pinnacle of the human race, as he's the deadliest person to ever exist. Change my mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 38 minutes ago, ET80 said: At that moment, young Mike Tyson reaches a pinnacle of the human race, as he's the deadliest person to ever exist. We often debated whether you'd step into the ring with Iron Mike as a $5 million dollar palooka, take a punch or two and collect I said yes, I would. Most said no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 43 minutes ago, ET80 said: November 26, 1986. Mike Tyson vs Trevor Berbick. On this day, Mike Tyson is the deadliest person in human history - there is not a person in the past or present that could beat him in a fight, regardless of discipline. The way he manhandled the WBC World Heavyweight Champion is scary. Trevor Berbick is the best figher in the world at this time, and Tyson dismantles him from the opening bell. At that moment, young Mike Tyson reaches a pinnacle of the human race, as he's the deadliest person to ever exist. Change my mind. I'll take a modern day MMA guy. Mike Tyson is really good at boxing, but when I hear "in a fight" I don't think boxing match. Also tbh people underestimate the gap in athletic ability between today's best athletes and the best athletes of the 90s. People are just so much bigger and faster because of better training, focus on diet, etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animaltested Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Well I for one would like to personally welcome our future World Conglomerate Overlord ; XAE A-12. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 1 minute ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: I'll take a modern day MMA guy. Mike Tyson is really good at boxing, but when I hear "in a fight" I don't think boxing match. The only thing I think is that as an MMA guy (be it BJJ, Muay Thai, Wrestling) you've got to get in close to do your damage - I don't think anyone would be able to get into that space without taking a hydrogen bomb from Tyson that day. When talking to people in combat sports, they say everyone has a circle - an area where nobody is able to execute their gameplan, you cut them off and execute yours. That day, Tyson's circle was the size of the entire ring - Berbick is trying to move laterally, trying to create space and Tyson was cutting off all attack and escape routes, and it wasn't strictly on anticipation, it was just quickness and explosiveness. Tyson was a ghost that day, he was everywhere you didn't want him to be and your only real response to it was to funnel right into Tyson's kill zone, where he could throw nothing but power shots. He was throwing nothing but compound power shots, no need to test range with jabs and crosses. Even if someone tried to shoot him that day, take him to the ground... I wouldn't put it past Tyson to have a very devastating counter to it. 9 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: Also tbh people underestimate the gap in athletic ability between today's best athletes and the best athletes of the 90s. People are just so much bigger and faster because of better training, focus on diet, etc. etc. I can agree to this, but in another facet - if you give a 20 y/o Tyson some of todays training standard, goodness knows who he'd hurt out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 17 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: We often debated whether you'd step into the ring with Iron Mike as a $5 million dollar palooka, take a punch or two and collect I said yes, I would. Most said no. That's a hard no from me. I've been punched in the face before by a guy who ended up being a bartender. It wasn't pleasant. Tyson would probably give me PTSD, no joke. (If it didn't kill me, that is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdallr Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 The only person I would give a chance against Tyson would be Fedor Emelianenko. He has the size, skill and strength to not be immediately destroyed by Tyson's punches, and once he gets close enough to grapple he would easily beat Tyson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJ Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, ET80 said: That's a hard no from me. I've been punched in the face before by a guy who ended up being a bartender. It wasn't pleasant. Tyson would probably give me PTSD, no joke. (If it didn't kill me, that is). Yeah but 5M buys a lot of therapy. I think i would. Tyson gets 2 punches. I'm allowed to try and defend myself. I think i would live, and $5M would go a long way toward an early retirement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, ET80 said: The only thing I think is that as an MMA guy (be it BJJ, Muay Thai, Wrestling) you've got to get in close to do your damage - I don't think anyone would be able to get into that space without taking a hydrogen bomb from Tyson that day. When talking to people in combat sports, they say everyone has a circle - an area where nobody is able to execute their gameplan, you cut them off and execute yours. That day, Tyson's circle was the size of the entire ring - Berbick is trying to move laterally, trying to create space and Tyson was cutting off all attack and escape routes, and it wasn't strictly on anticipation, it was just quickness and explosiveness. Tyson was a ghost that day, he was everywhere you didn't want him to be and your only real response to it was to funnel right into Tyson's kill zone, where he could throw nothing but power shots. He was throwing nothing but compound power shots, no need to test range with jabs and crosses. Even if someone tried to shoot him that day, take him to the ground... I wouldn't put it past Tyson to have a very devastating counter to it. I can agree to this, but in another facet - if you give a 20 y/o Tyson some of todays training standard, goodness knows who he'd hurt out there. I'm not an MMA fan or a combat sport expert at all, but even just watching the occasional pay per view I see guys who really want to avoid being taken down and have a lot more experience defending stuff like knee kicks than Tyson get taken down pretty easily. Again, not an expert, I just find it hard to believe that Tyson would be able to get by on athleticism as his defense. And tbh, the average top tier athlete is, what like 10% better today than they were in the 80's/90's. 10% is a lot. Tyson hasn't seen anything like the modern NFL athlete where you have guys like Terron Armstead, Lane Johnson, Aaron Donald, etc. who can all run faster 40 times than Jerry Rice, Anquan Boldin, etc. etc. Like Bo Jackson broke the world by running a hand timed 4.2 at 6'1, 225. Taylor Mays ran a 4.31 at 230 and went in the 4th round before being a thoroughly mediocre NFL player. My honest take is that pretty much every historic athlete (except Usain Bolt) would be in for a very rude awakening. This isn't unique to Tyson. Jordan having to run around for 48 minutes guarding Curry or Thompson after being up until 6 AM gambling the night before? Good like MJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 38 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: We often debated whether you'd step into the ring with Iron Mike as a $5 million dollar palooka, take a punch or two and collect I said yes, I would. Most said no. Do I have to be sober? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJ Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: Jordan having to run around for 48 minutes guarding Curry or Thompson after being up until 6 AM gambling the night before? Good like MJ. He could do it. The thing that separated him from great to GOAT was his competitiveness. He'd adapt just fine. EDIT: the rest i agree with. Though my counter is that you put the best athletes of yesterday in today's time, and they would get the training those guys get today. They'd still be elite class athletes, and probably close that 10% gap. You can't assume they wouldn't get that training. Edited May 6, 2020 by theJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 33 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: Do I have to be sober? I think he'd knock the drunk out of you And while I agree with your general premise on modern athletes, Tyson is/was a biomechanical specimen. His height/weight/arm length and twitch are truly remarkable. I wouldn't pick him in a 40 yd run, but I think his punching power/skills translate across generations. Given your science background, I'm going to nominate you to test out my theory. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: I think he'd knock the drunk out of you And while I agree with your general premise on modern athletes, Tyson is/was a biomechanical specimen. His height/weight/arm length and twitch are truly remarkable. I wouldn't pick him in a 40 yd run, but I think his punching power/skills translate across generations. Given your science background, I'm going to nominate you to test out my theory. tbh I'd rather get punched by Mike Tyson than talk about immunology. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 (edited) this is a well done Ted Talk on the advancement of sports/athletes over time. Faster, better stronger Really interesting info as it pertains to our discussions https://www.ted.com/talks/david_epstein_are_athletes_really_getting_faster_better_stronger?language=en#t-169478 Edited May 6, 2020 by Shanedorf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 1 hour ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: Again, not an expert, I just find it hard to believe that Tyson would be able to get by on athleticism as his defense Part of my take was that his instincts were on point that day. You're familiar with the theories around elongated time, being able to seemingly slow down an event as it's happening in real time. In that Berbick fight, Tyson was more than slowing things down around him, he probably could have reversed time, he was that in tune with what was going on. Maybe I'm thinking too hard about it in Tyson's favor. 1 hour ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: My honest take is that pretty much every historic athlete (except Usain Bolt) would be in for a very rude awakening. I agree, but I'd add some names to it. - Usain Bolt - Michael Phelps - Tyson (as @Shanedorf said, his dimensions were optimal for short distance strikes in close quarters and he had the hand/eye coordination to find a striking point to cause serious damage) I'm iffy on the following: - Jim Brown. Is he the same freak of nature when DEs are bigger and as fast as he is? - Wayne Gretzky. I don't know enough about hockey, but everyone says he was able to slow things down to a crawl. So... yeah, nah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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