MacReady Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Yes it does. He's a stupid character, and the excuse that he's the face of the Unsullied is a bad excuse. The Dothraki don't have a face. The Unsullied don't need a face. By that logic, where's the face of Cersei's armies? The North's armies? The White Walkers? The Tyrells? The face of an army is who controls that army. The face of the Unsullied is Daenerys, not Wormtongue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_Flux Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 1 minute ago, HorizontoZenith said: Yes it does. He's a stupid character, and the excuse that he's the face of the Unsullied is a bad excuse. The Dothraki don't have a face. The Unsullied don't need a face. By that logic, where's the face of Cersei's armies? The North's armies? The White Walkers? The Tyrells? Why is he a stupid character? While we are at it, do you have statistics to show your previous claim of how many people do not care about him? He is the face of the Unsullied. He represents them to Dany. That is pretty clear in the show. All those examples you listed do have faces. Multiple faces, even. lol. Those multiple faces and characters behind all those groups (and more) are a driving force in the show. Quote The face of an army is who controls that army. The face of the Unsullied is Daenerys, not Wormtongue. That is an incredibly obtuse point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Just now, Adrenaline_Flux said: That is an incredibly obtuse point of view. How is it an obtuse point of view? If it's obtuse, you'd have a way to back it up. How many armies have a "face" other than the Unsullied? Who is the face of the North's armies if not Jon Snow? Who is the face of Cersei's armies if not Cersei? (Can't count Jaime since he was an episode one character). Who is the face of the Dothraki if not Daenerys? Who is the face of the White Walkers if not the Night King? Who is the face of the Tyrells if not Ollenna? Who is the face of the Greyjoys if not Euron? Who is the face of the Dornish if not Ellaria? Who is the face of the Riverlands if not Baelish? Literally zero other armies have a "face" besides the one who controls them, and you're telling me it's obtuse to say that the Unsullied don't need a face? If it was so obtuse, you could come up with two other examples to show a face of an army that wasn't the person who had control of that army. I doubt you could come up with one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Dude. That greyworm scene. Makes me thick everywhere. Dude can Greco-Roman wrestle with me anytime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_Flux Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 1 minute ago, HorizontoZenith said: 5 minutes ago, Adrenaline_Flux said: That is an incredibly obtuse point of view. How is it an obtuse point of view? If it's obtuse, you'd have a way to back it up. How many armies have a "face" other than the Unsullied? Who is the face of the North's armies if not Jon Snow? Who is the face of Cersei's armies if not Cersei? (Can't count Jaime since he was an episode one character). Who is the face of the Dothraki if not Daenerys? Who is the face of the White Walkers if not the Night King? Who is the face of the Tyrells if not Ollenna? Who is the face of the Greyjoys if not Euron? Who is the face of the Dornish if not Ellaria? Who is the face of the Riverlands if not Baelish? Literally zero other armies have a "face" besides the one who controls them, and you're telling me it's obtuse to say that the Unsullied don't need a face? If it was so obtuse, you could come up with two other examples to show a face of an army that wasn't the person who had control of that army. I doubt you could come up with one. If your definition is whoever controls the entirety of an army, then there is not much point to expand since there is a clear difference in how we view the definition. I am also confused now by your definition since you are including people like Olenna and Euron who have pledged allegiance to another ruler (Dany and Cersei, respectively). By your definition, they would no longer be the face of those armies. Also confused by you saying the White Walkers have no face, but then mention the face of the White Walkers... lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) Just now, Adrenaline_Flux said: If your definition is whoever controls the entirety of an army, then there is not much point to expand since there is a clear difference in how we view the definition. I am also confused now by your definition since you are including people like Olenna and Euron who have pledged allegiance to another ruler (Dany and Cersei, respectively). By your definition, they would no longer be the face of those armies. Also confused by you saying the White Walkers have no face, but then mention the face of the White Walkers... lol. Oh, God. It's really not that hard to get. You're purposefully muddying the issue because you know I have a point, and my point is this... No army has a face beyond who controls it. Olenna controls the Tyrells. It makes no difference if she swore loyalty to Daenerys. Same with Euron and Cersei. The Night King is the King of the White Walkers, just like Cersei is the queen. There isn't some high ranking general of the White Walkers who we know leads them into battle. Same thing with Cersei's armies, the North's armies, the Dothraki and every other army out there. Can you even name a SINGLE character who is Dothraki right now under the loyalty of Daenerys? Are the Dothraki not a similar threat as the Unsullied? We don't know a single Dothraki, and yet for some reason the Unsullied need a face to represent them? There's a reason all pawns are called pawns. They're all the same. They don't deserve individual names because they're all equal. Just like the Unsullied. Wormtongue is pointless. Literally. You muddied the issue because you can't come up with a single soldier who represents or is the face of an army other than Wormtongue, thus, Wormtongue character development is pointless. Edited July 24, 2017 by HorizontoZenith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyMouse07 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Can we quit the pissing contest and just enjoy the episodes? Then going full reek was interesting the PTSD he was having in that moment was terrifying. I don't blame him for it. I'm sad that Ny didn't stick with Arya but I hope there is a reunion of again. I've always liked the direwolves. Also glad Tyrion got some time on the screen too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_Flux Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Just now, HorizontoZenith said: Oh, God. It's really not that hard to get. You're purposefully muddying the issue because you know I have a point, and my point is this... No army has a face beyond who controls it. Olenna controls the Tyrells. It makes no difference if she swore loyalty to Daenerys. Same with Euron and Cersei. The Night King is the King of the White Walkers, just like Cersei is the queen. There isn't some high ranking general of the White Walkers who we know leads them into battle. You muddied the issue because you can't come up with a single soldier who represents or is the face of an army other than Wormtongue, thus, Wormtongue character development is pointless. I am not muddying anything. I am just not sure if your definition really holds up at all. The show is based around many characters representing many different groups. And it is such a trivial point that it is not worth arguing, especially considering that you have not responded to any of the bigger, much more relative points. Primarily, you have not shown that it is such a vast majority that does not care about him, the points showing that him getting screen time does not take away from any other character or plot point, or that it would be much more insulting to just ignore him completely especially when they are literally about to go to battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_Flux Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, MightyMouse07 said: Can we quit the pissing contest and just enjoy the episodes? Then going full reek was interesting the PTSD he was having in that moment was terrifying. I don't blame him for it. I'm sad that Ny didn't stick with Arya but I hope there is a reunion of again. I've always liked the direwolves. Also glad Tyrion got some time on the screen too. I am trying to discuss the show and steer other users away from personal attacks and more toward actual episode discussion. Not always easy to do, lol. I enjoyed Theon getting hit with the PTSD and going Full Reek as well. The last two scenes with Ny/Arya and the Euron attack really pulled at some strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Just now, Adrenaline_Flux said: Primarily, you have not shown that it is such a vast majority that does not care about him, the points showing that him getting screen time does not take away from any other character or plot point, or that it would be much more insulting to just ignore him completely especially when they are literally about to go to battle. Strike up a poll. Ask, literally, "Do you care about Wormtongue?" In a vacuum, there would be a 90% runaway vote of no. Here, since people like to disagree with me because I'm an ***, it might be closer. Nobody cares about Wormtongue. You know it, so why argue it? Really, why argue it? Do you, yes or no, think that even 20% of people who watch Game of Thrones care enough about Wormtongue to warrant 7 minutes of screentime being dedicated to him? Second, how can you say screen time doesn't take away from other characters? There's a finite number of minutes to this series, and he just took 7 of them last night, in addition to the countless other minutes wasted on him. Especially when they're about to go to battle? Who cares? How many generals are given seven minute pre-battle character development sessions? None. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywindO2 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 I wouldn't be surprised if that's actually the last we see of Nymeria. It provided closure for a loose string from the first season and it was a nice nod to the books themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_Flux Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 1 minute ago, HorizontoZenith said: Strike up a poll. Ask, literally, "Do you care about Wormtongue?" In a vacuum, there would be a 90% runaway vote of no. Here, since people like to disagree with me because I'm an ***, it might be closer. Nobody cares about Wormtongue. You know it, so why argue it? Really, why argue it? Do you, yes or no, think that even 20% of people who watch Game of Thrones care enough about Wormtongue to warrant 7 minutes of screentime being dedicated to him? Second, how can you say screen time doesn't take away from other characters? There's a finite number of minutes to this series, and he just took 7 of them last night, in addition to the countless other minutes wasted on him. Especially when they're about to go to battle? Who cares? How many generals are given seven minute pre-battle character development sessions? None. I don't think there is a forum where I could create a poll that would give accurate representation. My own personal opinion would be that 99.9% of people were not offended at Wormtongue receiving 7 minutes of screentime. Since when has there been a finite number of minutes? The run times have always varied and the showrunners have mentioned how some episodes heading forward will be the length of movies. I am fairly confident that if Game of Thrones came to HBO with an 8 hour episode to air, their response would be simply "what time?" It is pretty common in any show to give more screen time to someone before a big plot point. As a fan of Survivor, I would think that you would know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_Flux Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, skywindO2 said: I wouldn't be surprised if that's actually the last we see of Nymeria. It provided closure for a loose string from the first season and it was a nice nod to the books themselves. Yeah, I would be more surprised to see Nymeria again than the alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Just now, Adrenaline_Flux said: As a fan of Survivor, I would think that you would know that. Low blow. I'm no fan of Survivor, especially now. Second, no. If you brought up the time spent on Tyrion, Wormtongue and Missandei shooting the poop drinking wine, if you reminded them of Wormtongue watching Missandei swim naked, if you reminded them of all the time spent on him even though he has extremely low impact on the story as a whole, people would start to get angry. It's not like this was the first time they've wasted time on his character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_Flux Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 5 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: If you brought up the time spent on Tyrion, Wormtongue and Missandei shooting the poop drinking wine, if you reminded them of Wormtongue watching Missandei swim naked, if you reminded them of all the time spent on him even though he has extremely low impact on the story as a whole, people would start to get angry. It's not like this was the first time they've wasted time on his character. What basis do you have that people would start to get angry about character development for a supporting character? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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