Andrei01 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, KingTitan said: Listening to Coach Mac talk on morning radio..... He spoke about how Mayfield and the Cleveland passing game struggled due to various factors. While talking he spoke about a passing game in general. Said there are only so many times you can play horizontally when attacking a defense. At some point you have to block and allow for routes to develop down the field. Said Mayfield partly struggled due to not having the time to set up and throw down the field due to blocking. Even having 2 of the best WRs in the league, wasn't a remedy for poor OL play. I think about this with Marcus. Mayfield struggled partly also because he left the pocket too soon. He'd scramble for no reason. With Marcus, at least he stands tall in the pocket trying to let these downfield routes develop. His fault is that he either is too late to throw or sometimes inaccurate with the throw, if he gets the blocking. But I think the key thing is that you need time regardless and our QB(s) won't/haven't received that. ESPN this morning was talking how if Baker had (x) amount of time to throw the ball he is great. Well No DUH! All QBs are better with more time to throw. lol Eh. well excuse this ramble. It's nothing new. Just talking. FWIW, Mayfield is averaging 3.03 seconds in time to throw, Mariota 2.97. That would be the 3rd highest time in the league for Baker and tied for 4th for Marcus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanrick Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Andrei01 said: FWIW, Mayfield is averaging 3.03 seconds in time to throw, Mariota 2.97. That would be the 3rd highest time in the league for Baker and tied for 4th for Marcus. Do you have a link for that data? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrei01 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 24 minutes ago, titanrick said: Do you have a link for that data? https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTitan Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, Andrei01 said: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing So we are saying they have plenty of time, the most time in the league almost and aren't being productive. Well, then we look at the QB, scheme and WRs. Something is wrong with one or all three of those things. Rodger, Cousin, Fitzpatrick Mayfield and Mariota. One of these guys is a HOF and the others aren't. What makes these QBs with the most time yet some of the least productive? Cause looking at the least time to throw we have Newton and then Brady. We have to be thinking that Brady gets the ball out quickly so the "time to throw" is less. Are we talking about the time he has to throw or the time needed to throw? Because Brady doesn't need or use much time to throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSS Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 49 minutes ago, KingTitan said: So we are saying they have plenty of time, the most time in the league almost and aren't being productive. Well, then we look at the QB, scheme and WRs. Something is wrong with one or all three of those things. Rodger, Cousin, Fitzpatrick Mayfield and Mariota. One of these guys is a HOF and the others aren't. What makes these QBs with the most time yet some of the least productive? Cause looking at the least time to throw we have Newton and then Brady. We have to be thinking that Brady gets the ball out quickly so the "time to throw" is less. Are we talking about the time he has to throw or the time needed to throw? Because Brady doesn't need or use much time to throw. I would say a lot of it is scheme and some of it's Mariota. We know he holds on to it too long occasionally, but our high amount of play-action is going to really push that number up as those are longer developing routes. As Cossell said last week, we have no real drop back and pass game. Everything is schemed open with a lot of play-action and screens. I would like to see them get away from this, but I think they are doing it because they believe it benefits Mariota. The fact that we have no real drop back passing game and that everything is schemed with predefined throws makes me believe that OCs don't believe Mariota can mentally handle a fully-fledged NFL passing attack with full-field reads and quick decision throws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragevsuall17 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Andrei01 said: FWIW, Mayfield is averaging 3.03 seconds in time to throw, Mariota 2.97. That would be the 3rd highest time in the league for Baker and tied for 4th for Marcus. I was actually looking at the NextGen stats earlier, and thought that was interesting. Their definition says "Time to Throw measures the average amount of time elapsed from the time of snap to throw on every pass attempt for a passer (sacks excluded)". That tells me they're not looking at rush or anything like... just how often a QB holds the ball prior to releasing it... and has nothing to do with pass rush. Rodgers, Mayfield, Mariota, Allen, Watson, Prescott, and Goff... all in the top 10 in this measure (Fitz used to, not sure if he still does, haven't seen Kyle Allen to know one way or another)... all move around in the pocket... so this may play into that as well. It'd be nice to have a time to sack, hit, or hurry to find out where he measures in that regard. That's really what we're looking for, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragevsuall17 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, TitanSS said: I would say a lot of it is scheme and some of it's Mariota. We know he holds on to it too long occasionally, but our high amount of play-action is going to really push that number up as those are longer developing routes. Play action definitely comes into play here... forgot about that. Still crazy to think Brady has the 2nd lowest number... because if memory serves me right, they're one of the higher play action teams too, aren't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, TitanSS said: I would say a lot of it is scheme and some of it's Mariota. We know he holds on to it too long occasionally, but our high amount of play-action is going to really push that number up as those are longer developing routes. As Cossell said last week, we have no real drop back and pass game. Everything is schemed open with a lot of play-action and screens. I would like to see them get away from this, but I think they are doing it because they believe it benefits Mariota. The fact that we have no real drop back passing game and that everything is schemed with predefined throws makes me believe that OCs don't believe Mariota can mentally handle a fully-fledged NFL passing attack with full-field reads and quick decision throws. this can’t be right, i was under the impression that the tennessee titans are the only team in the nfl that is diametrically opposed to scheming receivers open 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTitan Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 He is broken. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSS Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, KingTitan said: He is broken. What's interesting about this is you can tell in another picture in the thread he's staring right at him. Strange for a QB to look right at that and be so timid as to consider that a risky throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTitan Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, TitanSS said: What's interesting about this is you can tell in another picture in the thread he's staring right at him. Strange for a QB to look right at that and be so timid as to consider that a risky throw. Yeah. He scrambles on this play for no reason. Just posted about Mayfield doing the same. What is bad is that we apparently have nobody on staff that can fix it. But he can go to a place like Chicago, KC or some place where they can coach QBs and regain it all. This snapshot is what worries me the most. Not accuracy, decision making or health or any of the other knocks against him. It's being scared to throw this pass. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrei01 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 44 minutes ago, ragevsuall17 said: I was actually looking at the NextGen stats earlier, and thought that was interesting. Their definition says "Time to Throw measures the average amount of time elapsed from the time of snap to throw on every pass attempt for a passer (sacks excluded)". That tells me they're not looking at rush or anything like... just how often a QB holds the ball prior to releasing it... and has nothing to do with pass rush. Rodgers, Mayfield, Mariota, Allen, Watson, Prescott, and Goff... all in the top 10 in this measure (Fitz used to, not sure if he still does, haven't seen Kyle Allen to know one way or another)... all move around in the pocket... so this may play into that as well. It'd be nice to have a time to sack, hit, or hurry to find out where he measures in that regard. That's really what we're looking for, I think. I think PFF measures time before hit or something close to it, but as I am not a subscriber to it I couldn't find that. I know sometimes they make some of those stats available on their social media, but haven't seen anything so far this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrei01 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, KingTitan said: Yeah. He scrambles on this play for no reason. Just posted about Mayfield doing the same. What is bad is that we apparently have nobody on staff that can fix it. But he can go to a place like Chicago, KC or some place where they can coach QBs and regain it all. This snapshot is what worries me the most. Not accuracy, decision making or health or any of the other knocks against him. It's being scared to throw this pass. Not that I wish him anything other than good luck, even if we were to move on from him, but I doubt many teams would look at him as a guaranteed starter and I doubt at this point that anyone could help him turn it all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTitan Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, TitanSS said: I would say a lot of it is scheme and some of it's Mariota. We know he holds on to it too long occasionally, but our high amount of play-action is going to really push that number up as those are longer developing routes. As Cossell said last week, we have no real drop back and pass game. Everything is schemed open with a lot of play-action and screens. I would like to see them get away from this, but I think they are doing it because they believe it benefits Mariota. The fact that we have no real drop back passing game and that everything is schemed with predefined throws makes me believe that OCs don't believe Mariota can mentally handle a fully-fledged NFL passing attack with full-field reads and quick decision throws. Looking at the little snapshot, this offense is far from perfect. It has flaws. But plays to made. What Smith needs to do is say, my QB has no confidence in what I'm asking him to do. No confidence in himself. What can I do to build that up where he can make throws that are there. Be a teacher and coach. He has the ability to make that throw. But for whatever reason he won't. This was never his problem before. It was staying healthy and avoiding the stupid INTs. Now he has grown a whole new set of problems. Coach needs to either fix it or say he can't and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Doom52 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) As frustrating as that play above is, and the fact that he won't cut it loose....is that the scheme apparently calls for two players to basically be running to the same area 25yrds down field and two guys to be running down the line of scrimmage toward him. Look at all of the open field at the bottom!!! It's clear that he has lost his nerve and is only seeing the pass rush and he refuses to step into a throw with anyone around him. I feel like someone has told him to cit down the turnovers if he wants to stay on the field so in his mind 8 sackes is better than even the possibility of an interception. Edited September 23, 2019 by Dr.Doom52 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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