Nick_gb Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Outpost31 said: I'm a big fan of Gruden. Say he's able to turn those three picks into Bosa and Cleilin Ferrel or whatever his name is. Or Bosa and another tackle. Or Bosa/Oliver. Or Bosa, Oliver and two not enough picks. Gruden is a head coach for nine more years after this. He's got 5 first round picks in the next two years. He is in a very strong position to have a LOT of success. You're assuming he hits on all of those picks -- He very well could be in a very strong position to have MINIMAL success through his time in Oakland. These first few moves don't dictate the entire story for Gruden, I agree. However, to assume he's in a very strong position to have A LOT of success based off of them is just ignorant when he is equally in the same position to have minimal success through his time with Oakland. Right now, fans shouldn't be excited or upset but be patient and hopeful. Before you say it, yes I'm aware of the above mentioned names draft profile. However let me remind you of the following players as well: Aaron Curry, LB Trent Richardson, RB Jason Smith, OT RG3, QB Dion Jordan, DE Johnathan Sullivan, DT Vernon Gholston, DE Derrick Harvey, DE Justin Gilbert, CB Dee Milliner, CB All of these guys were either highly thought of coming out or dubbed as the safest pick in the draft, none of them contributed to a significant degree on an NFL franchise and have been labeled busts. There is no such thing as a SAFE pick in the NFL Draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBitzMan Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 18 minutes ago, Nick_gb said: You're assuming he hits on all of those picks -- He very well could be in a very strong position to have MINIMAL success through his time in Oakland. These first few moves don't dictate the entire story for Gruden, I agree. However, to assume he's in a very strong position to have A LOT of success based off of them is just ignorant when he is equally in the same position to have minimal success through his time with Oakland. Right now, fans shouldn't be excited or upset but be patient and hopeful. Five 1sts and $80 mil in cap space is not a strong position to have minimal success. Just because players bust doesn't affect the fact that Gruden has set himself up pretty well. This isn't very hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_gb Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Just now, TheBitzMan said: Five 1sts and $80 mil in cap space is not a strong position to have minimal success. Just because players bust doesn't affect the fact that Gruden has set himself up pretty well. This isn't very hard. I'm sorry what? Just because you have $80 million in cap and 5 First round draft picks doesn't mean that cap space is used correctly. Do I need to go back and list off Free Agency busts as well? Hell, I could keep it specific to Oakland Raiders for both Free Agency and the draft if you'd prefer? I mean seriously -- Why don't we wait and see what he does with that money and those draft picks and see how they fit into the system and the rebuild they have going on in Oakland before we sit here and claim he's in a very strong position to do very well. Chip Kelly did all of the same things to the Philadelphia Eagles that John Gruden is currently doing with the Oakland Raiders. Yet, he didn't have success with the moves he made and it got him fired relatively quickly. It's like people forget all about the Albert Haynesworth's and Nnamdi Asomugha's of the NFL and assume draft capital + salary cap = strong indicator of future success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 @Nick_gb, obviously there's a chance he has some busts along the way, but that's true for every first round pick, and he's got five of them in two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_gb Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Outpost31 said: @Nick_gb, obviously there's a chance he has some busts along the way, but that's true for every first round pick, and he's got five of them in two years. It doesn't matter if he has 5 of them in 2 years -- I'm JS by you saying he is in strong position to have great success, you're writing that fact off. It's FAR too early to say he's doing a good or bad job and far too early to even be remotely excited for Oakland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 That's not the discussion though. He IS, in fact, in a very strong position. That's not saying that position of strength will work out. Having 5 first round picks is a very strong position to be in. He's in a better position than any team without a QB right now, and better even than some WITH a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 8 hours ago, CWood21 said: And for the record, I'd argue tanking is more important in the NBA than the NFL because the talent pool in the NFL is soooo much deeper than the NBA. I’d say another reason is that basketball only has 5 players in the court who also play both offense and defense. A single player or two can dominate more in basketball than football without a great supporting cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Both Shane Ray and Shaq Barrett are UFAs at the end of the season, the Broncos suck and neither of them are going to want to return to a place where 30% snap counts are their ceiling. I can't imagine they aren't open to parting with either. That'd be the first call I'd make. Personally I think Barrett is the better of the 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Both Shane Ray and Shaq Barrett are UFAs at the end of the season, the Broncos suck and neither of them are going to want to return to a place where 30% snap counts are their ceiling. I can't imagine they aren't open to parting with either. That'd be the first call I'd make. Personally I think Barrett is the better of the 2. They might be available, but both probably get decent contracts in FA. If the offer isn't good enough, I'd be willing to bet that the Broncos are willing to collect the compensatory picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, CWood21 said: They might be available, but both probably get decent contracts in FA. If the offer isn't good enough, I'd be willing to bet that the Broncos are willing to collect the compensatory picks. Why wait on a 2020 4-5th guaranteed at rounds end, when someone offers a 2019 4-5th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Packerraymond said: Why wait on a 2020 4-5th guaranteed at rounds end, when someone offers a 2019 4-5th? Not sure why anyone is going to offer that. Shane Ray has 2 sacks over his last season and a half (14 games) and Shaq Barrett has 6 sacks over the same period (23 games). Both are pending FAs. Don't see teams willing to give up much of anything for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Not sure why anyone is going to offer that. Shane Ray has 2 sacks over his last season and a half (14 games) and Shaq Barrett has 6 sacks over the same period (23 games). Both are pending FAs. Don't see teams willing to give up much of anything for them. Because they are 25 year old pass rushers who have been effective and are blocked by a superstar and a top 5 pick. Both will probably agree to reasonable deals (6-8m per) which would become incredible values if they develop into double digit sack guys. If I'm throwing around a mid pick I'd rather gamble on a "could be" then be pretty confident in what I'm getting in a "has been". Let's face it, those are your two options at pass rusher, unless you offer a 1st to ARI for Chandler Jones and they accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Not sure why anyone is going to offer that. Shane Ray has 2 sacks over his last season and a half (14 games) and Shaq Barrett has 6 sacks over the same period (23 games). Both are pending FAs. Don't see teams willing to give up much of anything for them. How many QB hurries does each have ? QB pressures? Could they become a better performer given more opportunities or a change of situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 I think either Shane or Shaq would Challenge Clay or Nick for the majority of snaps here. Probably not Perry, but their youth makes them about as effective as Clay, and that could make Clay a huge asset in the playoffs. Clay ain't great anymore, but he's still capable of some timely big plays, especially if he's fresh and healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 Gute sitting on his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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