Is that the light at the end of the tunnel? (O.T. Thread)

[NateDawg]

1 minute ago, AkronsWitness said:

There are over 130,000 schools in this country. How long do you think it would take to create that position of 'good guy with a gun' at every single one of them.

I think you have to put it on the cities and work with the local police. You see it with school resource officer but you don’t see it in every school building. The onus is on the local district to protect the kids. It really isn’t a huge logistical hoop. You dedicate that resource from the department or you choose it’s not a priority. 

[MWil23]

5 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

There are over 130,000 schools in this country. How long do you think it would take to create that position of 'good guy with a gun' at every single one of them.

Most already have one, but more importantly we need a metal detector in EVERY school.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

15 minutes ago, JDD said:

 

Executive order is the wrong way because it isn't law. If he signs that in 2 years it could be gone. When you sign something like M4A and don't have it go through the house and senate it can just we wiped away. Going through the right way means you need a super majority in both to get it taken away.

This is me not holding my breath for anything to get done that requires 60 votes and isnt viewed as a national/international emergency or isn’t the minimal possible option.

15 minutes ago, JDD said:

 

I'm against the student loan forgiveness. Not because of the reason to buy votes, because they don't have a way to fix the issue. In 20 years we will be in the same spot we are in today and then we will have to wipe away the issue. Also I find it funny that you are talking inflation then you say wipe away billions of dollars. 

I’d argue loan forgiveness and fixing the issue aren’t mutually exclusive.  They can and should do both imo.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

17 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

Guns protect banks, politicians, and the wealthy. They should be protecting my kids and yours. Doors should be locked. Put a cop or at least retired armed LEO in every school with a radio for backup. When **** goes down, ask yourself if you are glad a good guy does or does not have a weapon.

I get your point, and I’m not even saying no, but data doesn’t support any of this tbh. There are multiple examples or recent school shootings (or mass shootings in general) where armed security was there.

Even if these arguments held water, there’s no reason at all to not take multiple approaches to fixing the problem.

Having our children in armed, locked fortresses to learn is hardly my idea of the freedom I hear so much about.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

7 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

I think you have to put it on the cities and work with the local police. You see it with school resource officer but you don’t see it in every school building. The onus is on the local district to protect the kids. It really isn’t a huge logistical hoop. You dedicate that resource from the department or you choose it’s not a priority. 

More cops?  Like, I’m not trying to make this personal as I know you’re a cop, but like, we already spend a ton on police.  Our national police budget is would be the 3rd largest military budget in the world.  Many cities spend roughly want Uvalde does on police, 40% of their budget.

Like we have more guns and more money spent on policing than any other country.

Maybe it’s time for some new ideas.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

8 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Most already have one, but more importantly we need a metal detector in EVERY school.

Are kids sneaking these ARs in? I feel like it’s not really an issue of them not being detected.

[NateDawg]

7 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

More cops?  Like, I’m not trying to make this personal as I know you’re a cop, but like, we already spend a ton on police.  Our national police budget is would be the 3rd largest military budget in the world.  Many cities spend roughly want Uvalde does on police, 40% of their budget.

Like we have more guns and more money spent on policing than any other country.

Maybe it’s time for some new ideas.

If you don’t increase the LEO budget, don’t you think it makes sense to use the police you have by moving one into a school? As a parent, I personally want someone trained with a gun, if a person comes into school and starts shooting kids. 
As far as data, there’s no tangible number for the shootings that may have been deterred. Similarly, when response happens and the threat is addressed, yes, the tragedy may have happened but it could have also been worse. 
Bottom line, every parent needs to demand the district explain how their kids are being protected. What is the plan? Have one, and parents need to decide if it’s satisfactory. If it’s not, they should not send their kids to that school.

Edited June 3, 2022 by NateDawg

[MWil23]

5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Are kids sneaking these ARs in? I feel like it’s not really an issue of them not being detected.

The long guns and handguns? The issue last week was that the door malfunctioned and didn’t lock.

Say what you want but I had metal detector duty in Dayton and typically these things rarely if ever happen in the inner cities. They’re an epidemic in the suburbs where these precautions aren’t taken.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Just now, NateDawg said:

If you don’t increase the LEO budget, don’t you think it makes sense to use the police you have by moving one into a school?
 

If local departments want to reallocate what they currently have to schools, sure, sounds great. 

Just now, NateDawg said:

As a parent, I personally want someone trained with a gun, if a person comes into school and starts shooting kids. 
 

I agree completely.  It’s likely the only thing that stops that situation unfortunately.

Just now, NateDawg said:

As far as data, there’s no tangible number for the shootings that may have been deterred. Similarly, when response happens and the threat is addressed, yes, the tragedy may have happened but it could have also been worse. 

We do have examples of these people being in place and the tragedies still occurring.  Cops were on scene in Uvalde.  Parkland had an armed cop.  Most hospitals have armed officers.  It’s perhaps better than nothing, but it doesn’t prevent these things from happening in the first place and it’s not a guaranteed solution to the problem once underway.

 

My whole point is just more cops and locks aren’t a solution, they’re NRA talking points to move the discussion away from the other obvious issues we have.  It’s long overdue to start implementing multiple possible solutions.

[NateDawg]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

If local departments want to reallocate what they currently have to schools, sure, sounds great. 

I agree completely.  It’s likely the only thing that stops that situation unfortunately.

We do have examples of these people being in place and the tragedies still occurring.  Cops were on scene in Uvalde.  Parkland had an armed cop.  Most hospitals have armed officers.  It’s perhaps better than nothing, but it doesn’t prevent these things from happening in the first place and it’s not a guaranteed solution to the problem once underway.

 

My whole point is just more cops and locks aren’t a solution, they’re NRA talking points to move the discussion away from the other obvious issues we have.  It’s long overdue to start implementing multiple possible solutions.

Yeah I edited my above post to add some content but basically every school has to have a plan and there’s no excuse not to. A detailed one. Parents must demand it. If parents don’t like the plan or lack there of and districts don’t respond to concerns, don’t send your kid there. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

6 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

The long guns and handguns?
 

right, they’re not trying to hide them is my point.  They’re walking in “guns blazing”.

6 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

The issue last week was that the door malfunctioned and didn’t lock.

that was AN issue.  I’d argue it goes a lot deeper than just that.

6 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Say what you want but I had metal detector duty in Dayton and typically these things rarely if ever happen in the inner cities. They’re an epidemic in the suburbs where these precautions aren’t taken.

Like I’ve said before, if we need metal detectors and cops in every school in the country just to prevent another mass slaughter, maybe we need to evaluate the whole damned system here.

[MWil23]

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

If local departments want to reallocate what they currently have to schools, sure, sounds great. 
 

Or maybe the federal government can pony up some dough from the 17x military budget of the second place country in the world, no?

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I agree completely.  It’s likely the only thing that stops that situation unfortunately.

We do have examples of these people being in place and the tragedies still occurring.  Cops were on scene in Uvalde.  Parkland had an armed cop.  Most hospitals have armed officers.  It’s perhaps better than nothing, but it doesn’t prevent these things from happening in the first place and it’s not a guaranteed solution to the problem once underway.

 

Removing protection from lawsuits that gun manufacturers have is a good place to start. Since we apparently don’t value the lives of kids and teachers maybe people will listen to green.

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

My whole point is just more cops and locks aren’t a solution, they’re NRA talking points to move the discussion away from the other obvious issues we have.  It’s long overdue to start implementing multiple possible solutions.

So is the “mental health” without a tangible solution rhetoric. Here’s a thought:

If you or a family member or individual is diagnosed with depression, bipolar disorder, or other mental health issue, you forfeit your second amendment right. It’s the price you pay for everyone else’s safety, and I’d give up my gun(s) in a heartbeat and will do so voluntarily if it ever comes to that.

[MWil23]

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

right, they’re not trying to hide them is my point.  They’re walking in “guns blazing”.

that was AN issue.  I’d argue it goes a lot deeper than just that.

If that door locks then he can’t get in. The dude strolled in painted up like the freaking Crow with visible long guns. Sure past that epic failure all around, but multiple unlocked doors cannot happen and doesn’t happen in any other government building in this country, let alone check point entrances. Have you seen Sandy Hook today? Worth a look. That place is Fort Knox, unfortunately 10 years too late.

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Like I’ve said before, if we need metal detectors and cops in every school in the country just to prevent another mass slaughter, maybe we need to evaluate the whole damned system here.

And I’m saying that those are obvious non partisan places to start at minimum until those system solutions are in place and viable.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, NateDawg said:

Yeah I edited my above post to add some content but basically every school has to have a plan and there’s no excuse not to. A detailed one. Parents must demand it. If parents don’t like the plan or lack there of and districts don’t respond to concerns, don’t send your kid there. 

Most parents don’t have any option other than the local public school unfortunately.

I also think laying this at the feet of the school system is passing the buck entirely.

 

[MWil23]

4 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I also think laying this at the feet of the school system is passing the buck entirely.

 

Bingo! Evaluate education in terms of expenses is a terrible societal issue.