AkronsWitness Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, MWil23 said: I’d be okay with arming teachers if they paid during the summer for an 8 week full time SWAT/situational training for this specific situation, firearms training, etc and basically going through the same 6 month equivalent training as an officer before you can be certified, and even then you’d basically almost be a dual Cop/Teacher. We just saw this specific law enforcement group fail so just armed training shooting targets at a basic conceal/carry course isn’t cutting it. And my pay/pension better reflect that and I get to retire after 25 years full benefits instead of 35 years since I’m doing 2 full time jobs. Good luck with that lol 75% of the nations teachers are female and I havent came across a single female in my life that wouldnt run the other direction if asked to even hold a gun let alone take training to operate one to fire at another person. This gets implemented, a lot of teachers are going to be gone. The salaries are just not worth it. You cant pay somebody 32k-50k per year to be a educator and then ask them to also become a trained gunmen at the same time. Especially with a group of people that couldnt be further from the type that want to get into that If 9 burly police officers were too afraid to run into a school in TX to confront a shooter--Mrs. Johnson isnt going to be doing jack in that same scenario. Edited June 3, 2022 by AkronsWitness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 17 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said: Good luck with that lol 75% of the nations teachers are female and I havent came across a single female in my life that wouldnt run the other direction if asked to even hold a gun let alone take training to operate one to fire at another person. This gets implemented, a lot of teachers are going to be gone. The salaries are just not worth it. You cant pay somebody 32k-50k per year to be a educator and then ask them to also become a trained gunmen at the same time. Especially with a group of people that couldnt be further from the type that want to get into that If 9 burly police officers were too afraid to run into a school in TX to confront a shooter--Mrs. Johnson isnt going to be doing jack in that same scenario. I mean, we need to understand none of them are going to be REQUIRED to be armed, rather be given the option of going through training. But yeah we are on the same page. I would consider it, but I’m also in good shape and mentally things like this don’t “bother me”, albeit I’d probably still pass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, MWil23 said: I mean, we need to understand none of them are going to be REQUIRED to be armed, rather be given the option of going through training. But yeah we are on the same page. I would consider it, but I’m also in good shape and mentally things like this don’t “bother me”, albeit I’d probably still pass. I saw a interesting statistic that said harming yourself (to put it lightly) is 3x more likely in households that have a firearm. Assuming for hunting or 'protection'. If we apply that same logic to teachers carrying--even if its just 1 per school--I wonder how much the rate of 'incidents' increase along with it. Ive always thought people are only as good as the opportunities they are given and having a weapon in the classroom--would open up a door for a looooot of other things to happen just by the simple fact that it now becomes a option. Like, you cant get addicted to cigs if you never buy them or around them. Just like you cant do something stupid with a weapon if you dont have one. You toss that other variable into the equation, things could happen. You eliminate the threat by eliminating the unknown variable. If that makes any sense. Its like a [IF- THEN] statement. Edited June 3, 2022 by AkronsWitness 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 You can get addicted to things other than cigarettes, but cigarettes are engineered to maximize addiction. You can damage someone with a frying pan, you can damage someone with a gun, a gun is maximized for harm. A dog can bite you, I'd sooner it is a mini dog than a staffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big poppa pump Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) I'm a teacher, and I have never been "gun guy"! I agree that there would be more of a chance of "accidental shootings" if you arm teachers, than actually having to need it, because of a terrorist situation. Edited June 3, 2022 by big poppa pump but it is a scary world we live in...and i understand people wanting to protect themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 There should have to be an armed officer at every public school. Whether paid by federal, state, county or city. Just assume that cost every year. Also I think the media needs to report it but don't give the shooter a legacy. Locally you're going to have a lot of coverage and I'm sure it gets great ratings nationwide but that's not important. Some of these people are probably thinking they can at least get famous as they go out with a bang. Kill yourself in your bathroom. You don't deserve the attention. I know you're troubled but when you make so many others troubled I don't care about you anymore. Also, we all need to stop politicizing it. Our first thought shouldn't go to how this helps our case for gun control or how this was staged by the other party etc... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 19 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Also, we all need to stop politicizing it. Our first thought shouldn't go to how this helps our case for gun control or how this was staged by the other party etc... “Staged by the other party” isn’t politics. It’s the ramblings of goobers. As far as the first reaction being gun control/politics, what should it be? More thoughts and prayers? Like, at some point those come across as pretty hollow if you don’t actually do anything to stop things like that from happening again. “We need to stop looking to politics to solve a problem that requires (in part) political actions to solve” seems like an odd take. If you’re saying this shouldn’t be a partisan issue, I’d agree, but common sense and/or public opinion isn’t going to win this one. The American public is being held hostage by gun lobbies and politicians at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 (edited) @NudeTayne Just my opinion if that ever happens, there is no amount of automatic rifles owned by a bunch of untrained rednecks and/or suburban dads that is going to stop a trained military force from coming and taking them. Ive never understood that reasoning for gun ownership just to be honest. Its like demanding I keep my brass knuckles when dropped into a cage with a starved lion. If that dictatorship theory happens, its over, we lost--and we lost because 'we the people' couldnt properly uphold a democracy through common sense voting. We let the wrong people get in charge and thats on us. Edited June 4, 2022 by AkronsWitness 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: “Staged by the other party” isn’t politics. It’s the ramblings of goobers. As far as the first reaction being gun control/politics, what should it be? More thoughts and prayers? Like, at some point those come across as pretty hollow if you don’t actually do anything to stop things like that from happening again. “We need to stop looking to politics to solve a problem that requires (in part) political actions to solve” seems like an odd take. If you’re saying this shouldn’t be a partisan issue, I’d agree, but common sense and/or public opinion isn’t going to win this one. The American public is being held hostage by gun lobbies and politicians at this point. **deleted because I dont want this thread to get warned/locked again. Edited June 4, 2022 by AkronsWitness 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 4 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: “Staged by the other party” isn’t politics. It’s the ramblings of goobers. As far as the first reaction being gun control/politics, what should it be? More thoughts and prayers? Like, at some point those come across as pretty hollow if you don’t actually do anything to stop things like that from happening again. “We need to stop looking to politics to solve a problem that requires (in part) political actions to solve” seems like an odd take. If you’re saying this shouldn’t be a partisan issue, I’d agree, but common sense and/or public opinion isn’t going to win this one. The American public is being held hostage by gun lobbies and politicians at this point. I meant as far as thinking how if affects your political view. Whether you immediately race to use it as fighting for gun control or opposing it. It seems like people are eager to show proof that their party is right. I'm sure there are some extremists who are partly happy that it happened so they look smarter. Same thing when stuff happens on the other side. People care so much about their politics that it blows my mind. There is no way we have such aligned ideas. Half the people (could be brothers raised together) think God is real, guns are good, abortion is bad, oil is good, global warming is fake, patriotism is everything, think a certain way about immigration/class/gender/sexuality etc... and the other half disagree with all those things. Shouldn't a lot of people who form their own opinions happen to like gun control, Jesus, oil and think it's fine that someone identifies however they like? Weird that there are imaginary lines drawn that keeps people from passing on specific ideas along a party line. I think maybe we don't want to think for ourselves, have been brain washed or just need to either be on the side of good or evil so they glorify their side and vilify the other. It's just not logical. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 4 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: I meant as far as thinking how if affects your political view. Whether you immediately race to use it as fighting for gun control or opposing it. Well like I said, policy, political action/inaction, politicians, etc is why the majority of people feel we’re experiencing these situations over and over. If they’re the cause, it only makes sense that people going straight to the cause would be a normal reaction. Why someone would go to “but muh AR’s” after something like this is beyond me, but I find it fairly grotesque. And like I said, I’m a gun owner with 5 AR’s who carries a gun regularly. 4 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: It seems like people are eager to show proof that their party is right. I don’t think in situations like this anyone is taking a victory lap at this point. Both sides feel they have all the evidence they could ever need to justify their opinions. 4 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: I'm sure there are some extremists who are partly happy that it happened so they look smarter. Same thing when stuff happens on the other side. I think those extremist would be gun/ammo manufacturers, politicians and the NRA and that’s about it. They know they’re gonna see their profits hit overdrive. Other than than, I think most people on either side feel terrible for the victims and their families. They just have different beliefs as to how to address the problems and what those issues are. Is the issue guns vs literally anything but guns? I think a reasonable person can say it’s a lot of the above. 4 hours ago, Thomas5737 said: People care so much about their politics that it blows my mind. There is no way we have such aligned ideas. Half the people (could be brothers raised together) think God is real, guns are good, abortion is bad, oil is good, global warming is fake, patriotism is everything, think a certain way about immigration/class/gender/sexuality etc... and the other half disagree with all those things. Shouldn't a lot of people who form their own opinions happen to like gun control, Jesus, oil and think it's fine that someone identifies however they like? Weird that there are imaginary lines drawn that keeps people from passing on specific ideas along a party line. I think maybe we don't want to think for ourselves, have been brain washed or just need to either be on the side of good or evil so they glorify their side and vilify the other. It's just not logical. I don’t disagree. In general I think people’s opinions are going to be formed based on a combination of life experiences, education, general interest in politics and propaganda. Some folks only see the world based on their own experiences vs hearing and understanding the experiences of others and accepting they may differ from their own. Education level is another factor. A person’s ability to reason, think critically vs simply taking a contrarian stance, understand source vetting, understanding historical precedents and the context of those precedents matter. If people aren’t interested in politics, by and large they often parrot what their parents told them or maybe someone they know who they think is intelligent. They haven’t formed an opinion themselves or understand how the different viewpoints vary. As far as propaganda, it’s pretty simple. The other factors are going to determine your slant and you’re going to consume stuff that confirms your beliefs. That applies to almost anyone. It’s up to the individual to decide if what’s being said holds water or is BS. Most folks just smile and nod. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 7 hours ago, NudeTayne said: *a different kind of fascist than the kind I like That’s the real perspective here tbh. 6 hours ago, AkronsWitness said: @NudeTayne Just my opinion if that ever happens, there is no amount of automatic rifles owned by a bunch of untrained rednecks and/or suburban dads that is going to stop a trained military force from coming and taking them. Maybe, maybe not, but the US government might find the resistance greater than in places like Afghanistan and Vietnam where they manage to flail around for a few decades accomplishing not a whole lot. Those weren’t nations filled with special forces and incredible weaponry, they were a bunch of farmers with guns. 6 hours ago, AkronsWitness said: Ive never understood that reasoning for gun ownership just to be honest. Its like demanding I keep my brass knuckles when dropped into a cage with a starved lion. If that dictatorship theory happens, its over, we lost--and we lost because 'we the people' couldnt properly uphold a democracy through common sense voting. We let the wrong people get in charge and thats on us. You’re not entirely wrong though. Fascism isn’t gonna storm the castle and take control in our case, it’s going to be welcomed through the front door. And honestly it’s already happened and has been an issue for a while now. The will of the public has not been reflected in public policy and politicians refuse to budge because it’s profitable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 Ok so is everybody ready to line up behind Nancy Pelosi George Forbes Dennis kucinich Yes or no No explanation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 16 minutes ago, mtmmike said: Ok so is everybody ready to line up behind Nancy Pelosi George Forbes Dennis kucinich Yes or no No explanation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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