Is that the light at the end of the tunnel? (O.T. Thread)

[MWil23]

What’s the biggest indictment of society?
 

Is it that elementary kids in my district held bake sales for anchorman locks for school shooting situations?

Is it that I’m envisioning our HR posting supplemental contracts for armed teachers in the same posting as middle school coaches and club advisors?

Is it that 5 presidential administrations have done nothing to rectify this or put metal detectors in every school?

All of the above

[Reginaldm9]

The job responsibilities for teachers have ballooned since NCLB from educator to personal testing tutor to babysitter to semi-parent, so we might as well just throw in the title of security too. Not only should teachers get guns, we should have to drive the kids to and from school and make them breakfast. Force the teachers to be the neighborhood watch. My farsighted coworker with gout would be a splendid patrolman. This seems like the easiest and most reasonable way to end these crises. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

7 hours ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

I don’t understand why they can’t just have cops in schools. 

Because sometimes they just wait outside or run away.

I’ve been pretty clearly pro gun for a long time, but Jesus Christ. Mandatory background checks, raising the age to purchase to 21, waiting periods, etc.  There are reasonable measures that could be taken that would save lives.

As a guy with 5 AR’s, it’s hard to justify needing them.  It’s much harder to rationalize not being ok with some extra vetting if it saves lives.

Before anyone jumps on to offer up alternative reasons such as “it’s mental health and the number of doors”, please don’t.  The same folks who say that are also not in favor of increased access to mental health or improving schools.  Or at least in favor of funding them.  If you do happen to be one of the few who does believe in those things, great, but none of these things are mutually exclusive.  We can provide increased access to mental healthcare, better resources for schools, AND regulate who’s buying guns all at the same time.

Arming teachers and “too many doors” is clown **** 

[Reginaldm9]

40 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Best quote I’ve seen:

“To ask teachers to be on the front line of mass shootings, the front line of a pandemic, and the front line of the struggle against inequality all while underpaying them and systematically underfunding the
education system is both cruel and a recipe for societal collapse.“

Let me throw some numbers at you guys:

Those who have left the teaching profession have TRIPLED since 2019. Typically education majors in college are between 15-20% nation wide. This year they were around 4%.

I’m very lucky that I’ve found the perfect teaching situation for me. Not a chance I stick around in 99% of the setups I see in other buildings/districts. This shortage is going to ruin everything though. Instead of paying better or focusing job responsibilities, they’ll drop certain testing and educational requirements and let any weirdo with a background check teach. It’s going to get way worse out here before it gets better. 

[MWil23]

8 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Because sometimes they just wait outside or run away.

I’ve been pretty clearly pro gun for a long time, but Jesus Christ. Mandatory background checks, raising the age to purchase to 21, waiting periods, etc.  There are reasonable measures that could be taken that would save lives.

As a guy with 5 AR’s, it’s hard to justify needing them.  It’s much harder to rationalize not being ok with some extra vetting if it saves lives.

Before anyone jumps on to offer up alternative reasons such as “it’s mental health and the number of doors”, please don’t.  The same folks who say that are also not in favor of increased access to mental health or improving schools.  Or at least in favor of funding them.  If you do happen to be one of the few who does believe in those things, great, but none of these things are mutually exclusive.  We can provide increased access to mental healthcare, better resources for schools, AND regulate who’s buying guns all at the same time.

Arming teachers and “too many doors” is clown **** 

The fact that nobody wants to look at a good portion of these mass shooters already being on hormone altering psychotropic drugs is alarming. We are the most medicated society in the world.

I’m also extremely pro gun, but The fact that 18 year olds have access to these things is alarming. I can see some 18 year olds having access to shotguns for hunting, especially in rural and farming communities, and higher poverty areas too. Why are people given access to full scale body armor?

And I’ll say it too:

The victimization of these individuals who carry out these heinous crimes is nauseating and a societal issue. Watching people say “oh wow he was just a kid” as an 18 year old who would have been storming Normandy 80 years ago is something else. Some people want to blame bullying as the reason, but allow me to present an alternative viewpoint:

Maybe kids like this didn’t have friends and were ostracized because they’re the type of creepy kids who would shoot up the schools in the first place, whether it’s Harris and Clebold pointing air guns in their class picture foreshadowing their shooting months in advance, or the Ava Tech shooter posting heinous images on social media, or this clown saying “I’m 18, watch out kids.”

Tell me, who wants to be friends with people like that? You know what I do? I go out of my way to be nice to kids like that so that on the day all hell breaks loose, they leave me alone, because even one of the Columbine shooters in the mayhem after dropping bodies turned to a kid and said “I always liked you. Get the **** out of here…” and paused and let him leave before resuming.

[MWil23]

14 minutes ago, Reginaldm9 said:

I’m very lucky that I’ve found the perfect teaching situation for me. Not a chance I stick around in 99% of the setups I see in other buildings/districts. This shortage is going to ruin everything though. Instead of paying better or focusing job responsibilities, they’ll drop certain testing and educational requirements and let any weirdo with a background check teach. It’s going to get way worse out here before it gets better. 

I love my district, but I can see where this is going. We’ve had substitute shortages, so we’ve allowed younger people without degrees (which I’m great with btw) to go through training and become subs.

But yeah, the academic rigor is going to be watered down, class sizes are ever expanding, and schools have hired more political positions like media correspondence who release press statements and are the face of districts because schools are contingent upon tax payer support and it’s all political.

Until we start holding students and parents accountable and stop making education a societal catch al for every shortcoming, this downward spiral will continue. We should be making 11-12th grade college prep and after 10th grade you either go that route or to a trade school like other European and Asian countries like Japan and South Korea.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, MWil23 said:

The fact that nobody wants to look at a good portion of these mass shooters already being on hormone altering psychotropic drugs is alarming. We are the most medicated society in the world.

I mean, the rest of the developed world takes antidepressants and deals with mental health issues too.

Hell we’re not even on this particular list

https://www.statista.com/statistics/283072/antidepressant-consumption-in-selected-countries/

What data are you referencing?

1 minute ago, MWil23 said:

I’m also extremely pro gun, but The fact that 18 year olds have access to these things is alarming. I can see some 18 year olds having access to shotguns for hunting, especially in rural and farming communities, and higher poverty areas too. Why are people given access to full scale body armor?

You’re a HS teacher, you know as well as anyone that 18 year olds are by and large not responsible adults.  They’re not even allowed booze and cigs ffs.

1 minute ago, MWil23 said:

And I’ll say it too:

The victimization of these individuals who carry out these heinous crimes is nauseating and a societal issue. Watching people say “oh wow he was just a kid” as an 18 year old who would have been storming Normandy 80 years ago is something else. Some people want to blame bullying as the reason, but allow me to present an alternative viewpoint:

Some of them are in fact victims though.  It doesn’t excuse what they’ve done, but it does provide an opportunity to address one of the multitude of factors that led them to their decision.  The fix for this isn’t a singular thing.

As far as Normandy, sure.  And 200 years before that they’d have been married with kids at 15 or some ish.  Dead at 45.  People mature more slowly (or maybe more accurately, we have identified when people have matured psychologically and it doesn’t match normal rights of passage into adulthood).

1 minute ago, MWil23 said:

Maybe kids like this didn’t have friends and were ostracized because they’re the type of creepy kids who would shoot up the schools in the first place, whether it’s Harris and Clebold pointing air guns in their class picture foreshadowing their shooting months in advance, or the Ava Tech shooter posting heinous images on social media, or this clown saying “I’m 18, watch out kids.”

They may just be those creepy, demented kids for sure, but there’s likely something that led a lot of them to this other than “pure evil”.  

1 minute ago, MWil23 said:

Tell me, who wants to be friends with people like that? You know what I do? I go out of my way to be nice to kids like that so that on the day all hell breaks loose, they leave me alone, because even one of the Columbine shooters in the mayhem after dropping bodies turned to a kid and said “I always liked you. Get the **** out of here…” and paused and let him leave before resuming.

If everyone took this approach maybe things would change for the better.  Being nice costs nothing.  A small gesture may mean nothing to you, but the world to someone else.  
 

All that said, we’re not the only nation that has bullying or kids who are *******s.  

[MWil23]

I’ve got all 3 kids by myself today so I won’t have time to write an in depth response…I was interrupted 3 times while on the can, but I’ll say this:

After 12+ years of education experience in an upper middle class district, including coaching at a district where the Oregon District shooter was from during the time period he was a student, I can say without a doubt that a good portion of those who fit the profile of these guys BY AND LARGE do not fit the typical “damaged” profile that many talking heads want to spin it as. They’re generally sociopaths and/or remorseless psychopaths. Look at the evidence and expert profile of the one Columbine shooter…oh and he went to elementary school in the district where I currently teach.

[DawgX]

14 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Biden is Jimmy Carter 40+ years later. It’s eerily similar 

I thought Trump was a weak president and a total buffoon, but it's baffling to me how anyone can think Biden is doing a good job. Carter at least came across as more likable than Biden.

And the sad thing is, there's not really any politician who gives me hope that they'd be much better at being president. I'm so over the two party system when both are bought and paid for by corporations and special interest groups. Things won't change until the system fundamentally changes. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

13 minutes ago, DawgX said:

I thought Trump was a weak president and a total buffoon, but it's baffling to me how anyone can think Biden is doing a good job. Carter at least came across as more likable than Biden.

And the sad thing is, there's not really any politician who gives me hope that they'd be much better at being president. I'm so over the two party system when both are bought and paid for by corporations and special interest groups. Things won't change until the system fundamentally changes. 

More or less.  We’ve got one party who’s sole goal seems to be obstruction and taking us back to the 1800’s and another that’s more concerning with trying to appear as though they’re trying to do good stuff as opposed to actually doing good stuff. 
 

They’re both dumpster fires.

[MWil23]

3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

More or less.  We’ve got one party who’s sole goal seems to be obstruction and taking us back to the 1800’s and another that’s more concerning with trying to appear as though they’re trying to do good stuff as opposed to actually doing good stuff. 
 

They’re both dumpster fires.

How both parties have found a way to systematically ignore the 88% of this country in a majority rules form of government is the greatest con ever pulled off. Keyzer Sose lays awake jealous every night.

[AkronsWitness]

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Best quote I’ve seen:

“To ask teachers to be on the front line of mass shootings, the front line of a pandemic, and the front line of the struggle against inequality all while underpaying them and systematically underfunding the
education system is both cruel and a recipe for societal collapse.“

Let me throw some numbers at you guys:

Those who have left the teaching profession have TRIPLED since 2019. Typically education majors in college are between 15-20% nation wide. This year they were around 4%.

Great quote and not surprising with the numbers. Ive had 100 conversations with her about changing professions given the pay. Especially relative to the amount of hours worked where teachers often work 50+ hour weeks.

Now, there was the conversation of what else can you do with a education degree besides be in schools teaching for a different career path. She was already on the edge with pay/hours, but now its a whole different story.

I wonder what it will take for teachers unions to all basically go on strike. Not only for pay reasons, but for this crap as well. What happens when tens of thousands of teachers quit their jobs across the country if this becomes nationwide.

But seriously, what else can you do with a education degree lol The only thing I came up with is be a online/virtual tutor for kids around the country. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by AkronsWitness

[MWil23]

5 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Great quote and not surprising with the numbers. Ive had 100 conversations with her about changing professions given the pay. Especially relative to the amount of hours worked where teachers often work 50+ hour weeks.

In my district I’m compensated fairly with good benefits, but I can’t speak for others.

5 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Now, there was the conversation of what else can you do with a education degree besides be in schools teaching for a different career path. She was already on the edge with pay/hours, but now its a whole different story.

My wife has an early childhood degree and works at a local university school of pharmacy working with helping professors make better assessments, identifying concepts students are struggling with, works with data and accreditation, and loves it. There are also many sales and business companies hiring educators since they’ve typically got natural presentation skills, work well with a plethora of personalities, and are good at answering questions and identifying areas of struggles. Just an FYI there are MANY options.

5 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

I wonder what it will take for teachers unions to all basically go on strike. Not only for pay reasons, but for this crap as well. What happens when tens of thousands of teachers quit their jobs across the country if this becomes nationwide.

You’ve basically already seen a soft strike with a mass exodus of the profession and future educators, and quite frankly, 2+ years of teaching during Covid wasn’t enough for parents to quit their griping and for legislation to address these things, so I don’t see a fix for anything short of every district to quit bending over backwards for parents and other malcontents. They need to figure out that appeasement never works.

[AkronsWitness]

48 minutes ago, DawgX said:

I thought Trump was a weak president and a total buffoon, but it's baffling to me how anyone can think Biden is doing a good job. Carter at least came across as more likable than Biden.

And the sad thing is, there's not really any politician who gives me hope that they'd be much better at being president. I'm so over the two party system when both are bought and paid for by corporations and special interest groups. Things won't change until the system fundamentally changes. 

Facts. Never been interested in politics until 2016 where I was basically forced to be interested. Since then I have basically seen how politicians function and its sickening. 

Two main factors. First, the amount of ****** you can apparently get away with if you are a politician is truly 'above the law'. Like how many of these politicians have criminal records that were never punished?? Trump has a long enough rap sheet with sexual assaults, aiding an insurrection, tax evasion, ect to put him in prison for the rest of his life but NO court or jury will charge him.

There is another senator who has child sex trafficking charges but he is still walking free. Others who have taken millions from foreign groups (illegally) and are still just out here doing their job. Many many many others with similar stuff. Its basically just a giant group of above the law criminals who run politics.

Secondly, the absolute blatantly obvious corruption by the NRA. The NRA just sits over here and gives millions of dollars to politicians so they can turn around and strengthen the gun lobby and support/sign policies to keep guns in the hands of millions of Americans so they stay aflot. 

It literally just happened with DeWine. He received more money from the NRA than ANY state politician and now we have laws where anybody can carry with no training and teachers have guns. You have large organizations out here basically manipulating laws and using state politicians as their puppets to get the lawmakers they want to pass by lining their pockets.

Politics are so corrupt man. So corrupt. They do not have the best interest of anybody in mind besides themselves personally and how much money they can make by accepting cash to push certain policies. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by AkronsWitness

[DawgX]

22 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

More or less.  We’ve got one party who’s sole goal seems to be obstruction and taking us back to the 1800’s and another that’s more concerning with trying to appear as though they’re trying to do good stuff as opposed to actually doing good stuff. 
 

They’re both dumpster fires.

Yup. There's countless things that Biden could do that would be extremely popular among voters (both liberal and conservative), like provide healthcare for all, forgive a substantial amount of student debt, and to stop interfering in places like the Middle East and Africa to name just a few. But he's not doing those things. And it's either due to incompetence or because those special interest groups don't want those things to happen (I'm very certain it's 95% due to the latter).