Is that the light at the end of the tunnel? (O.T. Thread)

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Just now, NateDawg said:

I agree that there should be more restrictive ways for people to get high powered weapons, but I think there is something to be said for the fact that criminals don’t care about gun laws if we think gun laws are the common sense solution at this point. Most guns used in crimes are not legally acquired. By a wide margin. 

I mean, just using the recent examples..

In Uvalde the guns laws did actually work to some degree.  The kid waited until he was of age and bought the gun legally.  If he had to be 21, it’s possible the whole thing doesn’t happen (can never know for sure).

In the hospital shooting in Tulsa, I believe the dude went and bought the gun and then went and shot the doctor immediately.  A waiting period may have stopped that (given him time to cool off).

At some point we have to stop letting perfect be the enemy of better.  There’s no one perfect solution that stops this. But like, it’s harder to get a Z pack for a sinus infection than an AR in this country.  That’s absurd lol.

[MWil23]

11 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

As it relates to guns people are referring to semiautomatic magazine fed rifles. The difference between a commercially available AR and an M16 is a third hole in the receiver more or less.  
 

People want to argue semantics, but it’s pretty easily identifiable. The “she called the magazine a clip lololol” crowd is as tedious as the people who want to lecture us about the material but can’t use proper terminology imo.

 

Correct; That’s more or less my point. Put in tangible definitions, capacity, feed and speed restrictions, etc.

It can and should be done. 

[MWil23]

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

But like, it’s harder to get a Z pack for a sinus infection than an AR in this country.  That’s absurd lol.

Age restrictions make sense.

Photo ID for pretty much anything, including firearms and voting, makes sense.

Increased and/or reallocation of resources to educational resources makes sense.

Tbh we need to ask ourselves how a bunch of dudes puttering around between work in their down time that don’t even agree politically on a lot of eager can be better about honest dialogue and trying to have viable solutions that make sense than politicians, then ask yourselves if it’s about anything other than power and money for them.

[MWil23]

7 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I mean, just using the recent examples..

In Uvalde the guns laws did actually work to some degree.  The kid waited until he was of age and bought the gun legally.  If he had to be 21, it’s possible the whole thing doesn’t happen (can never know for sure).

You can also play societal “profiling bingo” on that one.

”High school dropout”

”Not having a father/living with grandparents”

”Posted threats on social media”

”Teachers had previously raised concerns”

”Texted ______ ahead of time”

[AkronsWitness]

9 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

I agree that there should be more restrictive ways for people to get high powered weapons, but I think there is something to be said for the fact that criminals don’t care about gun laws if we think gun laws are the common sense solution at this point. Most guns used in crimes are not legally acquired. By a wide margin. 

I don’t think anybody is saying that fighting fire with fire is the only solution here. You can ask for protection for if **** goes down without thinking this is mutually exclusive from factors leading to **** going down to begin with. 

I mean thats fine and I understand they are going to be there regardless--but make it harder for them to acquire by eliminating the ability to walk into a Walmart and walk out 20 mins later with a deadly weapon. A lot of these events, typically done by younger people, would have no idea how to get their hands on something like that if it wasn't readily available to them simply by going to a store and paying for it like it was a video game.

You will still have your hardened criminals, sure--but thats a lot easier to contain and digest than the current state of gun ownership. 

To your point, why not just do both? Is there a limit to being overly cautious with gun violence? Put better security measures in place at schools/churches AND make it much more difficult to obtain weapons.

After 9/11 I had to nibble my stick of Old Spice down to 3oz just get on a airplane--and how many plane hijackings happened after those security measures took place? Zero. You put strict security in place and you eliminate the violence.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

11 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

You can also play societal “profiling bingo” on that one.

”High school dropout”

”Not having a father/living with grandparents”

”Posted threats on social media”

”Teachers had previously raised concerns”

”Texted ______ ahead of time”

Yeah it’s frustrating that these kids often aren’t going under the radar.  People see them, their actions, realize it’s a problem and just can’t do anything to prevent this stuff.  That has to change.

[MWil23]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yeah it’s frustrating that these kids often aren’t going under the radar.  People see them, their actions, realize it’s a problem and just can’t do anything to prevent this stuff.  That has to change.

Look at the kid in Florida last year or the year before. Literally dozens of teacher reports and others that went nowhere and all that stuff he did as a minor was thrown out the window and he was still able to get his hands on weapons. Minor law protections need to change IMO, especially for firearms.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

15 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Age restrictions make sense.

Photo ID for pretty much anything, including firearms and voting, makes sense.

Increased and/or reallocation of resources to educational resources makes sense.

Tbh we need to ask ourselves how a bunch of dudes puttering around between work in their down time that don’t even agree politically on a lot of eager can be better about honest dialogue and trying to have viable solutions that make sense than politicians, then ask yourselves if it’s about anything other than power and money for them.

It’s absolutely not about anything other than money.  Our local boy wants to ban porn to stop gun violence lol.  Like, they’ll literally say it’s anything but the thing it is to appease the people who line their pockets.

[NateDawg]

@AkronsWitness I’m not sure we really see it differently in terms of the ARs, etc. I think guns have their place but could care less when it comes to a ‘right’ vs safety and common sense. Common sense tells me it shouldn’t be simple to get a gun that could kill a bunch of people. Common sense also tells me we need trained LEOs to deal with threats if they are still present. Because outliers still happen. And common sense tells me politicians are almost all corrupt, rich, and will continue making decisions for their own interest.

[MWil23]

4 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

@AkronsWitness I’m not sure we really see it differently in terms of the ARs, etc. I think guns have their place but could care less when it comes to a ‘right’ vs safety and common sense. Common sense tells me it shouldn’t be simple to get a gun that could kill a bunch of people. Common sense also tells me we need trained LEOs to deal with threats if they are still present. Because outliers still happen. And common sense tells me politicians are almost all corrupt, rich, and will continue making decisions for their own interest.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Just now, MWil23 said:

Look at the kid in Florida last year or the year before. Literally dozens of teacher reports and others that went nowhere and all that stuff he did as a minor was thrown out the window and he was still able to get his hands on weapons. Minor law protections need to change IMO, especially for firearms.

Increasing age restrictions, some sort of actual background check (not just a nics check) that is far more thorough, red flag laws (with guardrails), integration of minor offenses as it related to firearm purchases, increase access to healthcare, universal background checks with a registry so potential straw purchasers can be identified, waiting periods, mag capacity restrictions… the list of reasonable steps to take is almost endless.  If you’re a law abiding citizen, there’s still no infringement on your right.  Some inconveniences at most.
 

But here we are, talking arming Edna the language arts teacher, turning schools into fortresses, and the impact of porn.

[AkronsWitness]

33 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Increasing age restrictions, some sort of actual background check (not just a nics check) that is far more thorough, red flag laws (with guardrails), integration of minor offenses as it related to firearm purchases, increase access to healthcare, universal background checks with a registry so potential straw purchasers can be identified, waiting periods, mag capacity restrictions… the list of reasonable steps to take is almost endless.  If you’re a law abiding citizen, there’s still no infringement on your right.  Some inconveniences at most.
 

But here we are, talking arming Edna the language arts teacher, turning schools into fortresses, and the impact of porn.

"All of our teachers are going be armed and trained on how to kill a mass murderer with an assault rifle"

Mrs. Johnson the 3rd grade teacher:

 

I just better see that salary triple if you expect her to be a educator and tactical shooter or else we're about to see a dramatic spike in homeschooling. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by AkronsWitness

[MWil23]

1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said:

"All of our teachers are going be armed and trained on how to kill a mass murderer with an assault rifle"

Mrs. Johnson the 3rd grade teacher:

 

I just better see that salary triple if you expect her to be a educator and tactical shooter or else we're about to see a dramatic spike in homeschooling. 

Triple? Bro I hate to tell you this but if you ever have to pull that gun your life is over. No more career, pension, incoming lawsuits due to triggering Susie’s anxiety, it’s Mrs Johnson's fault because whatever other nonsense, etc.

Some kid got expelled for the year in the class next to me because an airsoft hand gun fell out of his pocket in a dark room and it looked like the real thing. You expect my buddy to draw down and end the threat with 24 hours of training in between PDs on flipped classrooms and implementing Google documents?

[AkronsWitness]

6 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Triple? Bro I hate to tell you this but if you ever have to pull that gun your life is over. No more career, pension, incoming lawsuits due to triggering Susie’s anxiety, it’s Mrs Johnson's fault because whatever other nonsense, etc.

Some kid got expelled for the year in the class next to me because an airsoft hand gun fell out of his pocket in a dark room and it looked like the real thing. You expect my buddy to draw down and end the threat with 24 hours of training in between PDs on flipped classrooms and implementing Google documents?

Its so true...so true. Talk about a lose-lose situation for everybody involved. 

 

 

[MWil23]

8 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Its so true...so true. Talk about a lose-lose situation for everybody involved. 

 

 

I’d be okay with arming teachers if they paid during the summer for an 8 week full time SWAT/situational training for this specific situation, firearms training, etc and basically going through the same 6 month equivalent training as an officer before you can be certified, and even then you’d basically almost be a dual Cop/Teacher.

We just saw this specific law enforcement group fail so just armed training shooting targets at a basic conceal/carry course isn’t cutting it.

And my pay/pension better reflect that and I get to retire after 25 years full benefits instead of 35 years since I’m doing 2 full time jobs.