Is that the light at the end of the tunnel? (O.T. Thread)

[candyman93]

36 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

At some point the educational system needs to evaluate why they don’t teach much over the course of 13 years that is useful for young adults who hit 18 YOA. Math is taught but people know nothing about a budget or how interest rates or financing work. Nothing is taught about fixing a plumbing issue or changing an outlet. I degree is a right of passage that gets you in the door but isn’t indicative of much in the real world.

I will try to word this the best I can.

 

Have you ever needed to solve a algebra problem at work? No, but you use the thought process every single day, e.g. “I have X amount of hours to get ready for y, which allows me to do Z.” 
 

Not to down play the trades and other skills you’re referencing. However, being a 3rd world country that focuses on primarily manual labor is not good long term. 
 

You NEED smart people. You NEED people who understand complicated thought processes.

 

If we were a society of just carpenters and plumbers, we would have been invaded decades ago, suffered a catastrophic financial collapse or be like a 3rd world country.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

College for the most part has become the biggest scam out there 

Absolutely.  Unless you’re getting a degree with a specific purpose that leads to gainful employment, you’re definitely risking a lot.

And even then things like utilizing taking college credits in high school, community colleges for your first year or two while living at home, etc can be utilized.  The cost of going to a 4 year university, living on campus, etc. the traditional college experience is a luxury that’s absolutely not justifiable unless you’re getting substantial parental help.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, candyman93 said:

I will try to word this the best I can.

 

Have you ever needed to solve a algebra problem at work? No, but you use the thought process every single day, e.g. “I have X amount of hours to get ready for y, which allows me to do Z.” 
 

Not to down play the trades and other skills you’re referencing. However, being a 3rd world country that focuses on primarily manual labor is not good long term. 
 

You NEED smart people. You NEED people who understand complicated thought processes.

 

If we were a society of just carpenters and plumbers, we would have been invaded decades ago, suffered a catastrophic financial collapse or be like a 3rd world country.

I’m assuming his thought process is more along the lines of we need to make sure everyone who graduates high school is able to function and contribute to society and be more self sufficient.  People who need those higher level skills for specific careers should obtain them in college.

Just my guess…

[Dawgpoun8017]

Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Absolutely.  Unless you’re getting a degree with a specific purpose that leads to gainful employment, you’re definitely risking a lot.

And even then things like utilizing taking college credits in high school, community colleges for your first year or two while living at home, etc can be utilized.  The cost of going to a 4 year university, living on campus, etc. the traditional college experience is a luxury that’s absolutely not justifiable unless you’re getting substantial parental help.

Thankfully I went to community college my first two years, had no debt from that and when I transferred I took out losses for half and my parents took out loans for half, I have a degree in marketing which I don’t utilize, but thankfully I have been able to pay off my loans for it

[candyman93]

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Absolutely.  Unless you’re getting a degree with a specific purpose that leads to gainful employment, you’re definitely risking a lot.

And even then things like utilizing taking college credits in high school, community colleges for your first year or two while living at home, etc can be utilized.  The cost of going to a 4 year university, living on campus, etc. the traditional college experience is a luxury that’s absolutely not justifiable unless you’re getting substantial parental help.

Here’s the problem with college-

 

Kids don’t know how to maximize it. The BIGGEST advantage of college is the ability to network. If you’re not building relationships and learning how to communicate with like minded peers- What are you doing? These people could become business partners one day or somebody you need a loan from.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, candyman93 said:

Here’s the problem with college-

 

Kids don’t know how to maximize it. The BIGGEST advantage of college is the ability to network. If you’re not building relationships and learning how to communicate with like minded peers- What are you doing? These people could become business partners one day or somebody you need a loan from.

No disagreement, but a lot of the social stuff that leads to networking is a luxury a lot of folks can’t afford.

Hard to spend time at a frat house if you’re working every evening or living at home for 2 years so you don’t have 6 figures of debt when you finally have a degree. 

[Dawgpoun8017]

1 minute ago, candyman93 said:

Here’s the problem with college-

 

Kids don’t know how to maximize it. The BIGGEST advantage of college is the ability to network. If you’re not building relationships and learning how to communicate with like minded peers- What are you doing? These people could become business partners one day or somebody you need a loan from.

See I was never helped with anything like that, I personally think colleges should more in helping students decide what major they should pursue, I received no guidance whatsoever with that I as a 17 year old just decided hey this is what I’m going to do with my life and that’s not the case at all

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

10 minutes ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

See I was never helped with anything like that, I personally think colleges should more in helping students decide what major they should pursue, I received no guidance whatsoever with that I as a 17 year old just decided hey this is what I’m going to do with my life and that’s not the case at all

I think allowing students to “figure it out as they go” is rough.  Sure the first year or so you can’t just get the basics done that apply to almost anything, but at some point you need a specific focus.

And honestly this is why government provided education, “free college” is important imo.  We as a society NEED people to do many of these jobs and we’re limiting who can do a lot of these things to some degree. 
 

“Free” community college/trade schools to essentially provide job training helps EVERYONE.  Nurses, plumbers, electricians, mechanics, etc.  These are essential jobs.  Train people to do them.  Same goes for things like doctors, pharmacists, engineers, etc that require a higher level of education.

[NateDawg]

41 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I mean, I’m not sure there’s really time for all of this.  It’s good to know, no argument there, but probably not the best use of time tbh.  Like algebra I’ve never needed to change an outlet in my adult life either.  YouTube videos can show me basic repair skills.  

Understand, and this type of education isn’t right for anybody either. But eliminate some of the stigma of things like trade schools, which provide real life application for a lot of people. There is so much in my adult life that I wish I had learned before I did, which I was never taught. And there is a lot that you are forced to learn because it gives you your degree. Maybe provide people with some options or something. In my real world now, I can reflect very few times back on thinking “man I’m glad I learned this in 10th grade Math” etc. sure, I’m certainly glad I learn basic math, how to form, coherent, sentences, etc. Some of this is common sense, needs to be taught. 

[NateDawg]

39 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

I will try to word this the best I can.

 

Have you ever needed to solve a algebra problem at work? No, but you use the thought process every single day, e.g. “I have X amount of hours to get ready for y, which allows me to do Z.” 
 

Not to down play the trades and other skills you’re referencing. However, being a 3rd world country that focuses on primarily manual labor is not good long term. 
 

You NEED smart people. You NEED people who understand complicated thought processes.

 

If we were a society of just carpenters and plumbers, we would have been invaded decades ago, suffered a catastrophic financial collapse or be like a 3rd world country.

I understand your point, but not all people are wired the same. There certainly are a lot of things in schools that are taught which also should be. But there should also be some instruction that specifically helps people when they are on their own. Like, here is your algebra, but let’s not instruct on what a smart budget looks like? Or instruct about what investing is and how it works? There are a lot of real life applications that people just need to learn on their own, if they aren’t taught well within the home.

[MWil23]

43 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I mean, there has to be some standardization. Leaving it up to the teacher alone is all well and good until you get some goober teacher who has no idea what the hell they’re talking about and they do nothing but piss nonsense in dozens of kids ears for the better part of a year, every year.

Not disagreeing at all whatsoever with any of this. Some type of standardization is fine, but when you get a bunch of people that decide "we need to learn about the Northwest Ordinance" for a 3rd time instead of about a million other things, people wonder why nobody knows about U.S. History after Watergate when it's not required to be taught in schools.

Or personal finance is now finally a mandatory HS course for the first time THIS YEAR.

The DoE is a joke. You have a bunch of people who have never been real educators at all making those decisions. It's the same issue I have with any/all Board of Education requirements. You have to not be an educator and live within the district...it would be the equivalent of putting some dude like me on a hospital board and making medical decisions.

[MWil23]

To @NateDawg's point, literally EVERY SINGLE report card in the state is tied to students who graduate from college and attend college which is tied directly to millions of dollars in funding, so when you all wonder why college is pushed, that's why, and it's absolutely a scam for a good portion of people.

Sure, we want a well educated society for a lot of reasons, but quit trying to push kids who cannot afford/don't have the ability to graduate from college and/or use their degrees into it, all while going into debt to do so.

[candyman93]

4 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

I understand your point, but not all people are wired the same.

How do you message a parent that their kid will be only good for manual labor without you getting fired?

[candyman93]

39 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

No disagreement, but a lot of the social stuff that leads to networking is a luxury a lot of folks can’t afford.

Hard to spend time at a frat house if you’re working every evening or living at home for 2 years so you don’t have 6 figures of debt when you finally have a degree. 

I’m those situations, the student needs to pursue community college.

[NateDawg]

2 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

How do you message a parent that their kid will be only good for manual labor without you getting fired?

I’m talking about providing some different options. You have some required courses and some that aren’t. Maybe let them and their parents choose which is more important educationally? 

Edited March 13, 2023 by NateDawg