Is that the light at the end of the tunnel? (O.T. Thread)

[candyman93]

2 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

Maybe let them and their parents choose which is more important educationally? 

Well here’s where you get into a serious problem.

 

Let’s say I’m a super religious type and I don’t like the idea of evolution being taught to my kid. Little Johnny doesn’t take ANY science classes.

 

What college on the planet is going to admit that kid?

[MWil23]

3 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

How do you message a parent that their kid will be only good for manual labor without you getting fired?

You don't, which is an indictment of society to be honest. I mean, your kid struggles academically and/or is clearly not interested in school, has some natural ability to excel with their hands in some capacity, but hey mom and dad, let's just give them a 504/IEP trump card and enable them for 12+ years (for the record, I'm pro 504 and IEP when used correctly as many are), and then blame teachers, counselors, and administrators for school "failing them".

Here's a thought:

Make HS college prep like every other western country in the world and how they do it in South Korea and Japan and make the students who can't prove academic excellence by 10th grade go the trade route for their own benefit and the benefit of society.

My plumber makes $125K+ a year and didn't have to rack up tens of thousands of dollars in debt to do so. Being in a trade isn't a death sentence, it's necessary for more than we'd like to admit.

[NateDawg]

Just now, candyman93 said:

Well here’s where you get into a serious problem.

 

Let’s say I’m a super religious type and I don’t like the idea of evolution being taught to my kid. Little Johnny doesn’t take ANY science classes.

 

What college on the planet is going to admit that kid?

As stated, some courses are required, and others are not. Basic applicable math, science, grammar, general Ed, etc. Does Johnny need to be taught trigonometry?

Just some thoughts. I’m glad I have a degree. I’m not using it. But I’m glad I have it because in today’s workplace, my degrees are a right of passage. I don’t necessarily feel more educated though because I went to college for four years or because I have an online masters. It might stand out on a stack of resumes though, over people that might actually be smarter and more capable. But when I am in a bind, I can certainly use some people that don’t have my degrees to come help me out.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

14 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

Understand, and this type of education isn’t right for anybody either. But eliminate some of the stigma of things like trade schools, which provide real life application for a lot of people. There is so much in my adult life that I wish I had learned before I did, which I was never taught. And there is a lot that you are forced to learn because it gives you your degree. Maybe provide people with some options or something. In my real world now, I can reflect very few times back on thinking “man I’m glad I learned this in 10th grade Math” etc. sure, I’m certainly glad I learn basic math, how to form, coherent, sentences, etc. Some of this is common sense, needs to be taught. 

I think the stigma of trade schools is insane.  My oldest is in an electrical program right now.  He’ll graduate with placement with a company where he can do his apprenticeship or whatever they do.  Or he can go to college and get the electrical engineering degree he wants.  They’re not an impediment to anything and at a minimum allow you to put a roof over your head and food on your table through gainful employment starting at 18.

[candyman93]

1 minute ago, MWil23 said:

My plumber makes $125K+ a year and didn't have to rack up tens of thousands of dollars in debt to do so. Being in a trade isn't a death sentence, it's necessary for more than we'd like to admit

I see the trades brought up a lot too. Won’t they DONT tell you is:

 

1. You have to be in a union to get paid well. Good luck finding one.

2. Trade field companies are notorious for skipping safety regulations.

3. A lot of dudes in the trade field are shady and will cut corners to earn themselves an extra buck.

4. The long term health problems.

[candyman93]

And for the record yes, the trades have been demonized in this country for too long. However, it’s not a rosy picture as some portray it as.

 

And I’m not talking about the “hard work” aspect of it.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

11 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

How do you message a parent that their kid will be only good for manual labor without you getting fired?

I think you make trades the default personally.  You’d need to test into college prep. Combo of standardized test, GPA, etc.

All you need is a GED for community college.  If you can’t test into a college prep program you don’t need to worry about getting into Harvard immediately after high school.

Maybe some kid doesn’t get to go to their college of choice immediately after high school, but far fewer people will be left as unemployable when it comes to actual gainful employment after high school. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

14 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

I’m talking about providing some different options. You have some required courses and some that aren’t. Maybe let them and their parents choose which is more important educationally? 

Isn’t that what we do now?  Core classes + electives?

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

9 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

I see the trades brought up a lot too. Won’t they DONT tell you is:

 

1. You have to be in a union to get paid well. Good luck finding one.

2. Trade field companies are notorious for skipping safety regulations.

3. A lot of dudes in the trade field are shady and will cut corners to earn themselves an extra buck.

4. The long term health problems.

Then address those issues separately then.  

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

8 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

And for the record yes, the trades have been demonized in this country for too long. However, it’s not a rosy picture as some portray it as.

 

And I’m not talking about the “hard work” aspect of it.

I think it’s a rosier picture than a kid with no plans for college and basic high school education when it comes to actually providing for themselves.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

And if we’re gonna reform our education system, blend a 2 year degree with a high school diploma (essentially).  Either be ready to work a job or ready to get to the meat and potatoes or an academic program.  
 

On top of building trades there’s a long list of jobs that one can do with a 2 year degree that pay well and are necessary.  LPN, RN, rad tech, home health aide, paralegal, OT assistant, pharmacy tech, dental hygienist, MRI tech, nuclear med tech, etc.  

All of those medical fields can be used as a starting point to other better paying healthcare jobs too.  

[NateDawg]

11 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Isn’t that what we do now?  Core classes + electives?

It’s been a good while since I was in school. But I don’t recall elective options at least in a trade industry. There were some elective different math courses. Some different gym classes that were offered. Maybe that’s changed and there’s more shop class etc then when I went through. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

3 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

It’s been a good while since I was in school. But I don’t recall elective options at least in a trade industry. There were some elective different math courses. Some different gym classes that were offered. Maybe that’s changed and there’s more shop class etc then when I went through. 

No not for trade stuff, but that’s pretty hard to do.

At least here, we have one trade school for the county.  I can’t imagine each school district would have the funding for all of the equipment, teachers, etc that’s needed to teach that kind of stuff.

And some of this stuff comes with a much higher level of risk to the kids do you can’t just allow any jackass into it.  For example my kid had to apply to get into the electrical program and not everyone who applies is accepted.

[MWil23]

31 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Well here’s where you get into a serious problem.

 

Let’s say I’m a super religious type and I don’t like the idea of evolution being taught to my kid. Little Johnny doesn’t take ANY science classes.

 

What college on the planet is going to admit that kid?

You'd be surprised. It happens literally every day. It's called "home school" and/or "private school". Plus, that's not how it works, you still take science courses, it's just going to go over creationism as opposed to evolution in terms of biology, and it's going to have almost zero impact on things like Chemistry except for different stances on carbon dating.

[MWil23]

30 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I think the stigma of trade schools is insane.  My oldest is in an electrical program right now.  He’ll graduate with placement with a company where he can do his apprenticeship or whatever they do.  Or he can go to college and get the electrical engineering degree he wants.  They’re not an impediment to anything and at a minimum allow you to put a roof over your head and food on your table through gainful employment starting at 18.

Yeah, and if he "works" during the summers, he can do so as a licensed electrician and make about 3-5x more than minimum wage while having a backup plan for what he's doing...and if he's ever a home owner, he can do a ton of that work himself and save thousands...or have a nice side hustle.