Is that the light at the end of the tunnel? (O.T. Thread)

[MWil23]

31 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

I see the trades brought up a lot too. Won’t they DONT tell you is:

 

1. You have to be in a union to get paid well. Good luck finding one.

No you don't. You can be self employed, or be like a family member I know who is a welder. He works 15 hours a week and gets paid for 40 hours plus gets paid to travel with meal and housing stipends due to basic demand for his profession (high) with a low supply of those available to do those jobs.

31 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

2. Trade field companies are notorious for skipping safety regulations.

This literally applies to every sector, namely workplace violations. This is not unique to the trades at all.

31 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

3. A lot of dudes in the trade field are shady and will cut corners to earn themselves an extra buck.

Yeah, they should become privatized corporate employees, CEO's, or politicians. Those guys are straight shooters who won't profit off of others and will absolutely always do the right thing.

31 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

4. The long term health problems.

This one is legitimate, albeit it depends upon your field. For welders and factory workers, yes. For plumbers and electricians who use proper PPE, not at all, and definitely not moreso than sedentary jobs where you stare at a screen and sit on your can all day and die of heart disease, strokes, or have other major internal stressors in your line of work.

[MWil23]

27 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Isn’t that what we do now?  Core classes + electives?

Yeah, definitely. Work study is essentially a direct replacement for those electives, as is a career/tech or STEM school. IMO we do a disservice with stigmas AND by starting them way too late (11th grade in most places).

Plus, that's largely dependent upon your local school and how much funding they get for expanding these programs, which as the report cards stand and are currently written, most of these schools that NEED these programs expanded won't get the funds to do so because they'll score low on their report cards. That dichotomy is absolutely an indictment of society and the system IMO.

[MWil23]

18 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

And if we’re gonna reform our education system, blend a 2 year degree with a high school diploma (essentially).  Either be ready to work a job or ready to get to the meat and potatoes or an academic program.  

While the CCP route is a major problem for other reasons (academic and maturity readiness), we are finally at the point of where a kid here can graduate from HS with an Associates Degree 2 year equivalent and it's past due.

18 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

On top of building trades there’s a long list of jobs that one can do with a 2 year degree that pay well and are necessary.  LPN, RN, rad tech, home health aide, paralegal, OT assistant, pharmacy tech, dental hygienist, MRI tech, nuclear med tech, etc.  

All of those medical fields can be used as a starting point to other better paying healthcare jobs too.  

100%. Phlebotomist, teacher's aide, electrician, mechanic (often times a nice bridge to aviation engineering in this area), construction (civil engineer), sanitation engineer, etc.

[MWil23]

20 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

It’s been a good while since I was in school. But I don’t recall elective options at least in a trade industry. There were some elective different math courses. Some different gym classes that were offered. Maybe that’s changed and there’s more shop class etc then when I went through. 

 

13 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

No not for trade stuff, but that’s pretty hard to do.

At least here, we have one trade school for the county.  I can’t imagine each school district would have the funding for all of the equipment, teachers, etc that’s needed to teach that kind of stuff.

And some of this stuff comes with a much higher level of risk to the kids do you can’t just allow any jackass into it.  For example my kid had to apply to get into the electrical program and not everyone who applies is accepted.

Around us, that's dependent upon your county's resources, such as the Greene/Montgomery/Clark/Franklin/Warren County Career Centers.

The application process and requirements are extensive, including passing your core classes up through the 10th Grade in most cases.

[NateDawg]

2 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

 

Around us, that's dependent upon your county's resources, such as the Greene/Montgomery/Clark/Franklin/Warren County Career Centers.

The application process and requirements are extensive, including passing your core classes up through the 10th Grade in most cases.

Given these options, how many people are genuinely interested in going to trade school? At least, when I was in school, it was a stigma. “If you are dumber than a box of rocks and not smart enough to get through high school, trade school is your best option.” Basically.

[MWil23]

3 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

Given these options, how many people are genuinely interested in going to trade school? At least, when I was in school, it was a stigma. “If you are dumber than a box of rocks and not smart enough to get through high school, trade school is your best option.” Basically.

It varies from community to community. In the 80s and 90s, you were a "dumb kid" or a "trouble kid" or a "poor kid". Today, that's not there AS MUCH, but some families just can't embrace that their kid isn't "college bound" for some reason.

[candyman93]

23 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

You'd be surprised. It happens literally every day. It's called "home school" and/or "private school". Plus, that's not how it works, you still take science courses, it's just going to go over creationism as opposed to evolution in terms of biology, and it's going to have almost zero impact on things like Chemistry except for different stances on carbon dating.

I see you went the snarky route and just ignored the conversation I was having.

 

Nate talked about dropping classes. So I responded about what happens if a parent drops a specific type of class. 
 

I referenced parents dropping a science class in its entirety.

[candyman93]

Just call me skeptical of those who drink the Mike Rowe (who’s paid by the Koch brothers) koolaid who just casually gloss over the downsides of trades and overly romanticize them as a whole.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

24 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

Given these options, how many people are genuinely interested in going to trade school? At least, when I was in school, it was a stigma. “If you are dumber than a box of rocks and not smart enough to get through high school, trade school is your best option.” Basically.

I think that stigma is changing as younger kids are seeing the college debt issues that millennials and zoomers are dealing with and are looking for other options.  
 

but yeah it had that stigma when I was in school too.  
 

I think it varies by trade too.  My oldest is in electrical and it seems to be middle of the road intelligence wise (according to him vs any other class at the career center or high school).  Stuff like heavy equipment is apparently full of idiots though 😂 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

14 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Just call me skeptical of those who drink the Mike Rowe (who’s paid by the Koch brothers) koolaid who just casually gloss over the downsides of trades and overly romanticize them as a whole.

I don’t think they’re really romanticized as much as just viewed as an objectively better option than hoping for the best after high school without a degree.

And going the vocational route doesn’t prevent you from going to college.

[MWil23]

59 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

I see you went the snarky route and just ignored the conversation I was having.

Not at all, that was not my intention so I'm sorry if I came across that way.

59 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Nate talked about dropping classes. So I responded about what happens if a parent drops a specific type of class. 
 

I referenced parents dropping a science class in its entirety.

You'd be surprised how much pull parents already have. That was my point. Even in 504 or IEP, a parent can literally put almost anything/everything they want and schools have to acquiesce to it. Universal cell phone usage due to ADHD and anxiety, preferring lime green paper...I've heard some doozies in my time in education that would only begin to scratch the surface here.

[MWil23]

42 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I don’t think they’re really romanticized as much as just viewed as an objectively better option than hoping for the best after high school without a degree.

And going the vocational route doesn’t prevent you from going to college.

This is the biggest reason that stigma is changing. More are understanding that you don't ever "HAVE TO" even use that certification, but you can if you want or you can parlay it into something else/"more" in terms of education.

If after x years you don't want to be an electrician anymore, you can go to college, and often times depending upon what you study and where you go, years of experience can test you out of certain electives for something like electrical engineering/others. The "bridge" options are there now.

Oh, and for the record since it was brought up here, the GED is now a MUCH more difficult test to take and a good portion of high school dropouts will fail it compared to the "meh, I'll just get my GED" crowd a couple decades or more ago.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

3 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

This is the biggest reason that stigma is changing. More are understanding that you don't ever "HAVE TO" even use that certification, but you can if you want or you can parlay it into something else/"more" in terms of education.

If after x years you don't want to be an electrician anymore, you can go to college, and often times depending upon what you study and where you go, years of experience can test you out of certain electives for something like electrical engineering/others. The "bridge" options are there now.

yep.  Like maybe my oldest will go to school and become an electrical engineer with a strong background in electrical work.  That experience can’t hurt either in school or moving forward. 
 

And maybe he doesn’t.  Maybe he gets placed with a good company and starts making good money and wants to do that.  I’d still encourage/demand/beg he go to a community college and at least get an associates in some sort of business or financial background so he could one day own his own company and understand the basics, but that’s pennies on the dollar cost/time wise compared to an engineering degree.

 

[candyman93]

 

[AkronsWitness]

Just bought a new home and have been dying to get a new 3 burner Weber grill since we went with a cheapo Charbroil grill 4 year ago at our last home. Somebody want to explain to me why Weber grills are $650 right now. $650! for a grill?!

I swear last time we looked they were  $350-400. Is it just the time of the year with Spring approaching or what.