buno67 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, pnies20 said: Is it possible for you talk about harbaugh without talking about Ohio st? This isn’t about Ohio st. Michigan’s players are clearly not on the same level athletically. That’s the bottom line. When you have inferior players, you lose games. Look at Campbell. He couldnt figure out how to beat 4 teams this year. Guess we should write him off. Harbaugh brother can’t get the ravens to the playoffs or figure out how to win the division. Hey let’s take saban. He always wins. saying he doesn’t get anything out of his players is not a good argument. He’s proved he can in the pros and he’s had his Michigan team competing for top 10 rankings this year after having a down year. 7 Ohio State gets brought up because of thats the measuring stick. if you are the coach of the Browns, the measuring stick is the Steelers. Its why just about every recent coach has been fired after losing to the steelers. Also how can you say Michigan is Clearly not on the same level athletically? they have been neck and neck recruiting wise the past 3 years. The difference is, over the past 3 years, tOSU has developed its talent more. When you have inferior players, you lose games? How did Purdue beat tOSU, how did Maryland take tOSU to OT. Look at last year, Michigan had a pretty talented team. Lost to MSU and South Carolina, two teams they were better than. Prolly had equal talent to PSU and Wisky and lost to them. Had less talent than tOSU and lost. There comes a time when coaching makes up for the talent gap or takes you over the hump. What about 2 years ago, when UM was ranked as high as #2 in the nation and lost to Iowa. Weird, Michigan has no problem being upset but yet Michigan and Harbs cant lead the upset. Browns had inferior players compared to the Ravens and Falcons and won those games. Comparing the situation at Michigan to Iowa St is completely differnet. UM has brought in 3 straight top25 recruiting classes. Where over the past 3 years, Iowa has had three straight classes in the 50s. Considered one of the best recruiting stretches in program history. So campbell is doing more with less talent. Also lets look at what Campball has done as upsets. He had his team absolutely destory a Patrick Mahomes team his 1st year, Upset Baker and #3 Oklahome last year, upset #4 TCU and upset #21 Memphis in their bowl game. This season he upset Oklahoma State and WVU. Campbell has shown he could beat teams they have no reason beating. I dont think Harbs has won a single game at Michgan where they were the lower ranked team. Literally Michigan has never upset a team. They have beaten teams they should have, lost to teams they shouldnt have lost to, and never defeated a team considered better than them. You look at those teams he had in the 49ers, those teams had some loaded defenses. four straight years of top5 defenses in yards. 3 years of top3 defenses in scoring with the last year being top10. thats pretty amazing stretch of defense. Now Vic Fangio is in Chicago, doing the same thing, creating a stellar defense. His offenses were solid but nothing great but since '14, the offense in the NFL has changed quickly to a more open concept and incorporated more college concepts. Again he ran a very efficient offense with the 9ers with keap but he had the benefit of doing that because he had a pretty historic stretch of defensive play behind him. Heck each year Keap got worse and worse. Greatest thing about his 9ers team were those defenses, the way Vic has the bears defense playing, I give the 9ers defensive credit to Vic and not Harbs. Again I have no issue with him being a Michigan guy. I just dont like what he has shown as a coach with his time at Michigan. I have never held college preference against a player, sure as hell wont do it for a coach. I have never walked away from a michigan game thinking, wow, Harbs really did an amazing job coaching his team, or darn he did a great job managing the game team. Hell, look at the game this year. Everyone walked away thinking, damn Urbz really did a great job with his team this week. especially when everyone thought Michigan would come in and finally win a game in the shoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, buno67 said: Ohio State gets brought up because of thats the measuring stick. if you are the coach of the Browns, the measuring stick is the Steelers. Its why just about every recent coach has been fired after losing to the steelers. Also how can you say Michigan is Clearly not on the same level athletically? they have been neck and neck recruiting wise the past 3 years. The difference is, over the past 3 years, tOSU has developed its talent more. When you have inferior players, you lose games? How did Purdue beat tOSU, how did Maryland take tOSU to OT. Look at last year, Michigan had a pretty talented team. Lost to MSU and South Carolina, two teams they were better than. Prolly had equal talent to PSU and Wisky and lost to them. Had less talent than tOSU and lost. There comes a time when coaching makes up for the talent gap or takes you over the hump. What about 2 years ago, when UM was ranked as high as #2 in the nation and lost to Iowa. Weird, Michigan has no problem being upset but yet Michigan and Harbs cant lead the upset. Browns had inferior players compared to the Ravens and Falcons and won those games. Comparing the situation at Michigan to Iowa St is completely differnet. UM has brought in 3 straight top25 recruiting classes. Where over the past 3 years, Iowa has had three straight classes in the 50s. Considered one of the best recruiting stretches in program history. So campbell is doing more with less talent. Also lets look at what Campball has done as upsets. He had his team absolutely destory a Patrick Mahomes team his 1st year, Upset Baker and #3 Oklahome last year, upset #4 TCU and upset #21 Memphis in their bowl game. This season he upset Oklahoma State and WVU. Campbell has shown he could beat teams they have no reason beating. I dont think Harbs has won a single game at Michgan where they were the lower ranked team. Literally Michigan has never upset a team. They have beaten teams they should have, lost to teams they shouldnt have lost to, and never defeated a team considered better than them. You look at those teams he had in the 49ers, those teams had some loaded defenses. four straight years of top5 defenses in yards. 3 years of top3 defenses in scoring with the last year being top10. thats pretty amazing stretch of defense. Now Vic Fangio is in Chicago, doing the same thing, creating a stellar defense. His offenses were solid but nothing great but since '14, the offense in the NFL has changed quickly to a more open concept and incorporated more college concepts. Again he ran a very efficient offense with the 9ers with keap but he had the benefit of doing that because he had a pretty historic stretch of defensive play behind him. Heck each year Keap got worse and worse. Again I have no issue with him being a Michigan guy. I just dont like what he has shown as a coach with his time at Michigan. I have never held college preference against a player, sure as hell wont do it for a coach. I have never walked away from a michigan game thinking, wow, Harbs really did an amazing job coaching his team, or darn he did a great job managing the game team. Hell, look at the game this year. Everyone walked away thinking, damn Urbz really did a great job with his team this week. especially when everyone thought Michigan would come in and finally win a game in the shoe. The measuring stick going to from college to NFL isn’t if you can beat a team or have beaten a team.... he’s a good coach. If you want to argue why he is or isn’t a good coach I’d rather do that. Not outcomes of games or recruit classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 No Harbaughs for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 20 minutes ago, bruceb said: No Harbaughs for me. The conundrum is going to be taking a proven coach or a young stud with few NFL connections. with Arians or one of the harbaughs you likely already have your coordinators set. With Campbell or Riley it’ll be tougher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, pnies20 said: The conundrum is going to be taking a proven coach or a young stud with few NFL connections. with Arians or one of the harbaughs you likely already have your coordinators set. With Campbell or Riley it’ll be tougher. It will work with Toub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 37 minutes ago, pnies20 said: The measuring stick going to from college to NFL isn’t if you can beat a team or have beaten a team.... he’s a good coach. If you want to argue why he is or isn’t a good coach I’d rather do that. Not outcomes of games or recruit classes. How does outcome of games not count? a couple of games yeah, small sample size, but in his 4 years at michigan, he has not beaten a single team ranked higher than him or beaten a team that he was favored to lose to, to me that is a red flag. How about in the day and age of the game, the dude still tries and runs a traditional offense. That is not showing any kind of innovation. Especially what is wanted from offenses now a days. He has a QB in Shea Patterson who is more like Baker with his ability to move around, make plays out of nothing, and is darn good in a spread uptempo offense, but yet wants to use him like Andrew Luck. Shea put up similar stat line at Ole Miss last year in 7 games to what he has played in a full season at Michigan. That harbs had no idea what to do offensively vs tOSU in the 2nd half. He has no counter to the adjustments tOSU made to him. which couldnt be that hard when other teams have drastically outschemed tOSU this year to just destroy their defense. Lets look at Harbs with the 9ers '11 31st 29th 24th '12 31st 23rd 16th '13 32nd 30th 23rd '14 29th 30th 22nd Those are the rankings for Harbs passing offense with the 9ers. Rams 18th 5th 5th Pats 11th 11th 16th Steelers 1th 4th 6th Texans 27th 18th 15th KC 16th 2nd 1st Bears 22nd 21st 10th Saints 21st 7th 3rd Passing attempts, passing yards, and TDs Rankings for the majority of the division leaders. It is a passing league. A lot of these teams are all about innovation and having a wide open attack from the shotgun. Just about all the division leaders dont run a traditional offense. Harbs lives and dies by the traditional offense. Offensively I dont know if I can trust Harbs. His offenses werent amazing in SanFran and his offense has been plenty blah at Michigan. He had the perfect QB to try and open up the passing attack with Shea but he didnt change his scheme for what is truly best for his QB. Browns just invested a #1 pick into Baker. I want someone with a Scheme who will truly get the best out of him. I strongly believe that isnt Harbs. You think its Keap? each year Keap played his stats got worse and worse and each year Harbs had him run more and more traditional schemes when he isnt a QB with that ability. Hell the best Harbs offense has ever looked is when he had Keap running schemes he utilized at Nevada when the 9ers made that run to the superbowl. That was innovation but he got away from it and wanted that under center scheme for his QB. Same thing he did at Michigan. Had a team built for some spread concepts but wanted to go straight back to the traditional under center, I need a lead full back system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDawg Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Won’t speak to the Harbaugh to Cleveland stuff mostly because it’s tabloid nonsense but the more I see Rashan Gary the worse he looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 46 minutes ago, pnies20 said: The conundrum is going to be taking a proven coach or a young stud with few NFL connections. with Arians or one of the harbaughs you likely already have your coordinators set. With Campbell or Riley it’ll be tougher. who would Jims OC/DC? Greg Roman? Mangini? geep chryst? Pep Hamilton? His offensive staffs have been garbage and no one has ever amouted to anything post Harbs. His defensive staff outside of Vic Fangio has accomplished as much as the offensive staff. Tomsula gonna be the DC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 34 minutes ago, NateDawg said: Won’t speak to the Harbaugh to Cleveland stuff mostly because it’s tabloid nonsense but the more I see Rashan Gary the worse he looks. I mean who really knows at this point what’s real and what’s not? what I know is that Dorsey hasn’t ever been able to pick his own front office and I guarantee he already knows who the guy is. The interviews will all be a formality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Good read https://www.cleveland.com/expo/sports/erry-2018/11/c3da82717e1392/jim-and-john-harbaugh-lincoln.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 7 hours ago, NateDawg said: Won’t speak to the Harbaugh to Cleveland stuff mostly because it’s tabloid nonsense but the more I see Rashan Gary the worse he looks. He reminds me of Mario Edwards. Uber hyped HS player who everyone says is a stud in college but I personally never saw it. Despite the talent, never lived up to the hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 More smoke about us wanting Matt Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 36 minutes ago, candyman93 said: More smoke about us wanting Matt Campbell. He’s my choice. I like him a lot. I won’t be upset if it’s someone like Ariana etc though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistaBohmbastic Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 Rapsheet with an article this morning about Arians only wanting to return to coaching if it's the Browns. @candyman93 where's the smoke coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Still not crazy about Arians and his 7 step drop system. Baker wouldn’t thrive in that. But if he kept kitchens and let him run his offense and was more of a ceo teacher I’d be all on board with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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