Remind me again why Jack Del Rio is still not the Raiders coach.

[TheKillerNacho]

6 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Gruden is tanking on purpose.  The rebuild starts next year.  He’s tearing down the roster this year.

lol

Do you actually believe this?

[Chargers]

19 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Not this again.. JDR is an awful head coach. He’s good for a wildcard berth every now and then but he’ll never be a consistent good head coach. Just not Super Bowl caliber. 

Gruden has a plan. He has more job security than any coach in history. Imo any coach would tank their first couple seasons if they had that luxury. None of them ever do as HCs usually get just two years to prove it.

And I don’t wanna hear we were going in the right direction, our roster sucked big time. Even that 12-4 year we were a 8-8 team that was just massively clutch. 

You think 3 seasons is a enough time for a head coach to win a Super Bowl. JDR took over a 3-13 team disaster Raiders team similar to this current Raiders team and improved them to 7-9 and then 12-4. One season of regression to 7-9, with alot of key injuries isn't enough proof to move on for a coach. 

[BayRaider]

29 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said:

lol

Do you actually believe this?

He is tanking on purpose.. what’s so hard to believe about that? I mean, we still suck, but the tank is obvious. Tied 28-28 with the Colts and we have 8 yards in the 4th QTR. We play Bruce Irvin and 9 snaps against the 49ers. This is an even more obvious tank job than the 2011 Colts. Gruden wants to build a championship roster. Not sure if he’s the right guy to do it, but it’s obvious to see what he’s doing. 

[MKnight82]

30 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said:

lol

Do you actually believe this?

Yes.  It’s obvious.

[megatechpc]

21 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Not this again.. JDR is an awful head coach. He’s good for a wildcard berth every now and then but he’ll never be a consistent good head coach. Just not Super Bowl caliber. 

Gruden has a plan. He has more job security than any coach in history. Imo any coach would tank their first couple seasons if they had that luxury. None of them ever do as HCs usually get just two years to prove it.

And I don’t wanna hear we were going in the right direction, our roster sucked big time. Even that 12-4 year we were a 8-8 team that was just massively clutch. 

I agree with you that Gruden certainly has a plan (now whether or not he will be able to pull it together into a SUCCESSFUL plan remains to be seen) and I have been saying that ever since the Mack trade.  I really believe that Gruden came into Oakland, looked around at his new football team, and eventually decided that it wasn't nearly good enough to get him to another SB.  There were great pieces like Mack, Carr, Cooper, etc, but all of them had serious flaws (Carr is inconsistent, Cooper can't catch, and Mack is too selfish) and the rest of the team surrounding them was not very good.  Given that, I think Gruden decided from around the time of the Mack trade to burn it all down and start again, accrue as many high draft picks as he could with what assets he had, and not overpay anyone.

Its possible that early on he was all-in on this Raiders team (all the veteran signings do seem at odds with a coach who was looking to rebuild) but I think that Mack's willingness to show up or talk without assurances to be paid like a franchise QB really rubbed Gruden the wrong way and he decided that they simply could not start spending that kind of money (no matter how good Mack may be) on a guy who clearly only cares about money and is not really bothered too much about which team he plays for.  Given that, it makes total sense (to me anyway) to ship him out of there for as high of draft compensation as you can get and then continue on accruing more draft picks with whatever else is left in the cupboard (hence Cooper etc).

Jon Gruden never ever expected to win this year or even come close to winning (at least he didn't by the middle of summer or thereabouts) and his 10-year contract enables him to essentially write this season off and focus on acquiring a bunch of young and talented players through the draft, which is crucially going to be far far cheaper than what it would've taken to sign JUST Khalil Mack, never mind any other high-priced vets.  And as I said at the time of the trade, I really believe it was the smart move to make for the Raiders (and I don't think Mack is really worth anywhere near the money that Chicago paid for him anyway; keep in mind the Raiders just paid Carr a lot of money but the Bears have the luxury of having their franchise QB on a rookie deal for several more years).

Obviously the fact is that Gruden now has to use all his draft assets wisely (with a lot of luck involved) and that is not something that he has necessarily done a great job of in the past, so it remains to be seen just how successful this plan of his will ultimately be.  But that doesn't change the fact (IMO) that the plan itself was the right way to go for the Raiders.  If I were to criticize Gruden for anything he has done so far it would be the clear lies he told to the fan base regarding Mack and his outlook for this season.  Once he decided to blow the thing up and move on from Mack he should simply have been honest with the fans and let them in on the plan rather than stating unequivocally that the team would sign Mack and was trying to win now as opposed to rebuilding.

[riceman80]

@megatechpc

You're a million percent wrong about Mack. He's not selfish at all. He wanted what he rightfully deserved was all. In no way was he selfish. Our entire D was s*** and he never took a snap off. Won DPOY at 26, never complained once, never gave anything less than 110%, and was perfect off the field. He did everythinv the face of a franchise was supposed to do and in turn just wamted what was his.

Imagine you had a job where you didnt get a raise for years, carried a dozen worthless coworkers on your back, and were named employee of the year every year. Then you ask your boss for raise of what you deserve compared to what your peers make and are told nah or just ignored. Would you wanna go back to that job?

Mack was perfect and deserves every penny he got from Chicago and after he got paid, he didnt slack at all. He dominated for the first month before he got hurt.

So calling Mack selfish is ridiculous imo.

[CrashMan510]

2 hours ago, TheKillerNacho said:

lol

Do you actually believe this?

Grudens still trying to win games but he's clearly rebuilding.

Which makes things worse., because he's supposed to be an offensive guru and the offense has been a huge piece of crap. And it's not like they didn''t have talent heading into the year.

 

[megatechpc]

17 minutes ago, riceman80 said:

@megatechpc

You're a million percent wrong about Mack. He's not selfish at all. He wanted what he rightfully deserved was all. In no way was he selfish. Our entire D was s*** and he never took a snap off. Won DPOY at 26, never complained once, never gave anything less than 110%, and was perfect off the field. He did everythinv the face of a franchise was supposed to do and in turn just wamted what was his.

Imagine you had a job where you didnt get a raise for years, carried a dozen worthless coworkers on your back, and were named employee of the year every year. Then you ask your boss for raise of what you deserve compared to what your peers make and are told nah or just ignored. Would you wanna go back to that job?

Mack was perfect and deserves every penny he got from Chicago and after he got paid, he didnt slack at all. He dominated for the first month before he got hurt.

So calling Mack selfish is ridiculous imo.

I'm just saying what Gruden's perspective was.  No matter how much YOU think Mack was worth, Gruden obviously didn't agree and neither do I.  The Raiders need cheap talent if they want to have a chance at building this thing up right.  Spending $25 million per year on Mack alone (when you're already paying Carr similar money) would simply be a ticket to more of the same.  Clearly the odds of getting someone as good as Mack in the draft is pretty low, but you can get somebody really good for a fraction of what Mack wanted, and he now has the assets to get several "really good" players all for cheap.  That is the only way this team is going to get where they want to go, not paying a couple of players tons of $$$ to go 7-9 every year.  2016 was a mirage; the Raiders were no where near as good as people think they were that year.

[JAF-N72EX]

I get the feeling that a few of you in this thread only recognize him by name and stat sheets and have not watched him in the last ~15 years.

The guy is awful. Always has been. He was certainly not going to be the answer.

Hiring JDR was bad decision. Firing JDR was the right decision. Hiring Gruden as his replacement was a terrible decision.

But Gruden COULD look like a genius in 3-4 years, however.  We'll see....

[megatechpc]

I saw enough of JDR down here in Jacksonville years ago.  He did a lot better in Oakland than I would've thought but certainly wasn't the guy that would ever get that team to the SB, at least IMO.  I think he is a solid coordinator but I'd never want to see him as my HC.  He's the kind of guy a team "settles" for, not a guy that anybody really pursues as the answer.

[JAF-N72EX]

2 hours ago, megatechpc said:

I saw enough of JDR down here in Jacksonville years ago.  He did a lot better in Oakland than I would've thought but certainly wasn't the guy that would ever get that team to the SB, at least IMO.  I think he is a solid coordinator but I'd never want to see him as my HC.  He's the kind of guy a team "settles" for, not a guy that anybody really pursues as the answer.

You may have watched him to SOME extent, but I seriously doubt you really paid much attention based on those two highlighted points above.

It should be mandatory that JDR should sign over 60% of his total income to the person who MADE JDR a household name in the first place.....Mike Smith!

But, that's all I will say because I have said this too many times and it really is THAT one-sided of a discussion when it pertains to him.

[BayRaider]

JDR is also a terrible defensive coordinator. He is actually a worse coordinator than he is a Head Coach. At least as a Head Coach he is a great motivator who gets players to work hard, although still not a good Head Coach by any means.

What is Jack good at? He is an excellent Linebackers coach. I think USC would be making a terrible decision to hire Del Rio as HC.. but then again when has USC done anything right over the past decade?

[Superman(DH23)]

3 hours ago, megatechpc said:

I'm just saying what Gruden's perspective was.  No matter how much YOU think Mack was worth, Gruden obviously didn't agree and neither do I.  The Raiders need cheap talent if they want to have a chance at building this thing up right.  Spending $25 million per year on Mack alone (when you're already paying Carr similar money) would simply be a ticket to more of the same.  Clearly the odds of getting someone as good as Mack in the draft is pretty low, but you can get somebody really good for a fraction of what Mack wanted, and he now has the assets to get several "really good" players all for cheap.  That is the only way this team is going to get where they want to go, not paying a couple of players tons of $$$ to go 7-9 every year.  2016 was a mirage; the Raiders were no where near as good as people think they were that year.

Sigh....believe me Gruden didnt want to trade Mack, and Gruden felt Mack was worth every penny.  It's now been near ubiquitously reported that the Raiders traded Mack bc of cash flow issues.  Mark Davis is the poorest NFL owner.  He just spent $300+M to buy his way into Vegas.  He didnt have another $100M to put into an escrow account for Mack.  Let me explain how bad this whole scenario was for the Raiders.  So let's say they draft Nick Bosa #1, and Bosa becomes everything Mack was.  Locker room leader, dpoy, all pros, all of that.  What happens in 4 years when Bosa is entering his 5th year option? The Raiders have sent a message to not just everybody in the locker room, the league, but all the agents of the upcoming drafts, we dont pay HOF talent.  So if I'm an agent, and my client is drafted by Oakland, do you think they are showing up for camp? Hell no, Oakland drafts my guy, hes talking his way out, or hes sitting the year.  The only way my client is showing up is with no 5th year option and no franchise tag allowed.  My client is getting paid when time.

[megatechpc]

As far as I have read (and I've read a lot about this), cash flow concerns were completely debunked as the reason that Oakland didn't sign Mack.  They absolutely could have done so had they wanted to, at least according to several articles I've read (and interviews I've seen as well).  The Raiders financial situation is undoubtedly poor compared to other teams in the league, but they can sign players if they want to (the Derek Carr signing springs to mind here).  The issue is that they do need to be SMART with their signings as they can't afford to just throw money around like the Rams for example.  

As I've said countless times, giving Mack over $100 million was just not reasonable for the Raiders at this time, no matter how good he may be.  While they could have done so, the effect of a signing like that (especially for a non-QB) would have essentially negated any opportunity for them to pay anybody else moving forward, and that is not a situation Gruden wants to be in when he already was predisposed to rebuilding the team in his own image to begin with.  With the draft assets they've already collected (not to mention further assets that may be coming down the pipeline between now and the draft) he now has the opportunity to put his own stamp on the construction of this team from the ground up, and to do so while spending far less money than just signing Mack would've cost him.  Seems like a smart strategy to me considering the fact (IMO) that this team as constructed was going nowhere anyway.

The elephant in the room to all this planning by Gruden remains his less than stellar track record for identifying and drafting talent, and that is something that he will have to be extremely good at in the next 24-36 months in order for any of this to work.  I don't know, the guy has 10 years to work with after all, so I think it was always in his mind to go ahead with a full rebuild eventually.  Mack just forced his hand by making it clear that being the highest paid defensive player in the league was his #1, #2,. and #3 priority.  The guy may be a great DE (hell, let's assume he is the very best DE in the NFL for the sake of argument), but the fact of the matter is that even the best DE in the league alone cannot win you any games if the rest of the team is full of scrubs.  Had Gruden acquiesced to his demands it would have hamstrung the Raiders from assembling any other major pieces for years to come outside of the draft.  And without the windfall of picks they've received from their recent trades, they simply could not have accrued enough top talent through the draft to compliment Mack enough for signing him to have made sense.

[CKSteeler]

So, who are the Raiders in a position to pay moving forward in the next 2-4 years? I mean, what contracts are looming that are so important?

I know! Gruden is going to bat .1000 in the draft, despite all previous failures. And then - THEN - he's going to have the perfect FA spree which he can't help himself with anyway that will propel the Raiders into instant contender status!

He's going to do this with Ryan Fitzpatrick, as well. Because Gruden has never shown even the slightest ability to draft and develop a QB. And almost less willingness to even use a high pick on one.

I'm sold. Mack needed to go so they can extend Kolton Miller in 2021 to the contract he deserves.