CKSteeler Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 17 minutes ago, BAConrad said: The other baffling thing about all this is that some people are salivating at the 5 first round picks that Oakland has in the next two drafts. Which in a vacuum is a fantastic prospect for a team in desperate need of a total teardown. But the problem is that you have to actually draft the right players with those picks. And the guy making those decisions has a proven history of flat out sucking at talent evaluation. Most first rounds don't even have 5 actual difference makers in them, and most teams have the top of their board set relatively the same. I mean, there's scheme differences, but a guy viewed as a top 10 pick by half the league isn't likely to be a third rounder on another team's boards. It gets murkier as you go deeper into the first round. But overall, half of first round picks suck tend to suck. I have joked in the past about draft picks being the mystery box prize, and actual players being just a boat (Family Guy reference). You don't know what one will be, so it's kind of exciting. But odds are, you won't hit. You'd probably be better off, especially with Jon Gruden running the show, trading those picks for more proven players. The only real added element to this is contracts. Most coaches also like young guys because they think they can build their own culture with them. But most coaches drastically overrate their own significance and ability to shape players (which may be why half of first rounders fail to begin with). Suffice to say, I'm not sold on Gruden pulling a Jimmy Johnson. He's more likely to be like Sashi and the litany of witless Browns GM's who came before him. Some of whom had more GM chops than Gruden, frankly (Holmgren). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 As for Irvin, he'd be a good role player on defense somewhere with defensive talent. He's an off the ball guy on most downs, not a DE. Not a great pass rusher, but a guy who can compliment a real one in the right situation. He also may be an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Rams plz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 17 minutes ago, El ramster said: Rams plz That would actually be a decent fit in a situational role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver&Black88 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 57 minutes ago, BAConrad said: Honestly, you aren't going to find a lot of Raider fans who like what Gruden has done. I invite you to come chat in our forum instead of just assuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gannon12 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Cooper was in his contract year and has not lived up to the draft status. Some of the worst hands ever in crucial times. Mack was holding out and we are in a demolition because the extreme lack of talent from horrible drafts from our GM. Mack and Cooper share the same agent. We would potentially end up with zero in return in and obvious turnover on the roster. Our defense has been complete trash for 16 years. We need a real defense. Do I believe in Gruden? It’s 30/70 right now but I’ll keep hope. Irvin was all talk zero production. He makes too many mistakes, too many penalties that are ridiculous, he is over paid and gives up a lot on the field. So I am happy he isn’t getting free paychecks to Rolando game play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 7 hours ago, BAConrad said: The other baffling thing about all this is that some people are salivating at the 5 first round picks that Oakland has in the next two drafts. Which in a vacuum is a fantastic prospect for a team in desperate need of a total teardown. But the problem is that you have to actually draft the right players with those picks. And the guy making those decisions has a proven history of flat out sucking at talent evaluation. You're 100% correct on this. Unless Gruden can check his ego in the offseason and admit he needs a better pair of eyes when it comes to the draft, FA, etc. then all this draft capital is for not. And let's be real, he's not doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 8 hours ago, MD4L said: He’s an above average run stopper with some pass rush juice. Scheme versatile as 3-4OLB, 4-3 SLB, and situational Edge. In short, someone should like him enough to bring him in. Especially now that you can get him for "free". What kind of a salary does he have? That could make some GMs pause... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 8 hours ago, CKSteeler said: Most first rounds don't even have 5 actual difference makers in them I guess this is subjective and I don’t want to get into a semantics argument, but what do you mean by “difference maker”? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Pugger said: Especially now that you can get him for "free". What kind of a salary does he have? That could make some GMs pause... I think he's owed $4M for the rest of this year and $9.25M next year. But that's only if he's claimed. And none of it is guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 9 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said: Honestly, you aren't going to find a lot of Raider fans who like what Gruden has done. I invite you to come chat in our forum instead of just assuming. Challenge accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Challenge accepted. It’s actually more of a 50/50 split. 50% think we needed a full rebuild, after three bad drafts in a row, and not high on Carr at all. The other 50% think Gruden should of kept reloading around Carr and Mack. It’s a pretty divided fanbase to be honest, haven’t experienced this before even during the 12 years we were bad. I for one fully agree with the total rebuild and don’t think Carr is the solution (although I’m still analyzing him every game and giving him a chance to prove me wrong). However, just not sure if Gruden was the guy to do the rebuild. I’d rather have Gruden draft than McKenzie though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver&Black88 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 4 hours ago, BayRaider said: It’s actually more of a 50/50 split. 50% think we needed a full rebuild, after three bad drafts in a row, and not high on Carr at all. The other 50% think Gruden should of kept reloading around Carr and Mack. It’s a pretty divided fanbase to be honest, haven’t experienced this before even during the 12 years we were bad. I for one fully agree with the total rebuild and don’t think Carr is the solution (although I’m still analyzing him every game and giving him a chance to prove me wrong). However, just not sure if Gruden was the guy to do the rebuild. I’d rather have Gruden draft than McKenzie though. I don't think its 50/50. You're the biggest Gruden fan we have. There's a few others. And a few who are in wait and see mode. No disrespect but you clown on Carr every chance you get, so I don't see that as giving him a chance to prove you wrong so much as waiting until the season ends to call for his head even stronger. I agree that there is a 50/50 consensus over rebuilding vs reloading though. Also agree on a lack of faith in Reggie's drafting. Not sold on Gruden's yet but I I'll give him more time before saying I don't trust him. I think a better eye for talent is needed overall for our franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, Silver&Black88 said: I don't its 50/50. You're the biggest Gruden fan we have. There's a few others. And a few who are in wait and see mode. No disrespect but you clown on Carr every chance you get, so I don't see that as giving him a chance to prove you wrong so much as waiting until the season ends to call for his head even stronger. I agree that there is a 50/50 consensus over rebuilding vs reloading though. Also agree on a lack of faith in Reggie's drafting. Not sold on Gruden's yet but I I'll give him more time before saying I don't trust him. I think a better eye for talent is needed overall for our franchise. Where is all this “I’m a Gruden fan” c*** coming from? I have said multiple times I like his decision to rebuild. What other praise have I ever given him? Please enlighten me. Go look for quotes. You won’t find a single one. You are twisting my words to fit your narrative. I have said before I wanted Jim Schwartz or a high level college coach but now that we have Gruden I will wait to see if he is the right guy to rebuild. Not sure how you can judge him until at least year three. Once agin, I have said multiple timea I am in favor of the rebuild and people relate this to some weird Jon Gruden praise. We needed a rebuild no matter what. Some Raider fans just get so mad with us losing if you mention Gruden or Rebuild they go into attack mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver&Black88 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Dude, you always decline to blame him for anything. I don't see this as a worth while argument so feel free to go look back at a lot of the Gruden arguments on our team forum to see what I mean. Maybe you see it as "defending the rebuild" but I'm not the only poster who hasn't interpreted it that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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