How good is Jared Goff?

[Thomas5737]

58 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Brees isn't letting it rip because he's under pressure, though. When he wants to wait on a play to develop, he can. Point being that the reasons for not giving Goff credit simply aren't consistent with how other QBs are treated. Based on the data, he's not throwing to significantly more open WRs than many other top QBs, and I bet he's being pressured at a similar clip when compared to some of the other top QBs. The Rams just happen to use a lot more long-developing routes and plays because of how heavily we use play-action passing and misdirection.

I don't know if it's not giving him credit, maybe by some but credit comes when you succeed with what you have. Goff is certainly doing that. He does take more time to throw than any other pocket passer but so what. Maybe he wouldn't do as well in another situation, so what. All he can do is succeed with what he has. I understand trying to slot QBs and seeing who may have it easiest and toughest task but what does it really matter,  you can't test it. Baker Mayfield wasn't a great prospect in a lot of peoples eyes because he hit open receivers. Well, yeah, hard to counter that and hard for anyone to ask a QB to do anything but what will be most successful. As an NFL QB he is hitting windows that not many would advise a QB to try to throw into but he is finding success with it when the ball isn't dropped.

My only issue is that you are comparing the bottom pocket passer (in terms of time until release) with the top in the link that you gave. Although looking at some of those numbers I don't think I'd put much trust in their data so maybe it isn't even accurate.

[Matts4313]

3 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

Ramster supporting your argument isn't exactly a good thing.

I didnt make an argument. 

[RandyMossIsBoss]

Good. I'd say top 10 right now, but obviously on as good a track as anyone to being an elite QB. Great accuracy, deadly when he gets in a rhythm, very mentally tough. That's probably his best attribute, or at least rarest, the mental toughness. As a predominantly pocket passer, yes the pass rush disrupts him more than QBs in the mold of Ben or Wilson, but he doesn't get frazzled by it, that's key. A lot of pocket passers can have their whole rhythm thrown off from taking some bad hits, get shook, have their internal clock thrown out of whack... but then you have your guys like Tom Brady who are never rattled. I see that in Goff, saw it in him at Cal.

 

Why only top 10 when he's putting up outrageous, elite, numbers? Well two things. One, the consistency inherently isn't there as a 3rd year player. Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and then even Ben, Rivers, Ryan and Wilson on a lesser scale, have their reps because they have been laying at a high level for several years, with a variety of WRs, RBs, OLs and in some cases, coaches (...actually I guess only Rivers' case, wow). We know things change a lot year to year, and good players can have a great year or two, but the great players manage to string these kinds of years together indefinitely. It seems it takes me a little longer to crown guys than others, sometimes that makes me look smart, sometimes it makes me look dumb for coming late to a party, but just the way I like approach "rankings."  Then of course there's the supporting cast, he plays with the best RB, a really good group of WRs, a good OL, a supposed* offensive genius. All of that obviously is going to make your job much easier and propel your numbers? That's not to say he is a system QB or is nothing without his cast, far from it, I just think it goes without saying you don't put up numbers without being in an environment where anyone could thrive (note: merely thrive, not set the world ablaze in the form of a 115+ passer rating. That's where you separate top 10 from just average). 

 

and yes... My answer for Mahomes would be nearly identical, but I'd point out different traits. My answer for Wentz would be nearly identical, but I'd point out different traits and of course instead of reason #2 in the above being "numbers are elite because cast is elite" it would be along the lines of "numbers are not elite because cast is not elite" 

 

 

*and when I say supposed, it's not that don't think he is, but I am not sold on it either, only been 2 years. Just like my conservative approach with QBs, I'll take same route for coach. On as good a track as anyone to be the next great HC, but I'm not afraid to pump brakes. Plus he is after all, working with gold, even if you only think Goff is an average QB that is one hell of a group, and I happen to think Goff is pretty damn good and things wouldn't be nearly pretty if he didn't have at least a top 15, franchise caliber, QB running the ship)

[RandyMossIsBoss]

3 hours ago, Jlowe22 said:

It's Sean Payton payback to Doug Pederson for beating him at golf and losing a bet.

Plus it's the damn NFL, running up the score? Please. If you don't like it, make a stop. Honestly glad they kept the foot on the gas to truly embarrass these guys and am ashamed that Malcolm took so much offense to it when he is the damn leader of the D. I understand the frustration, at a point they're probably just thinking lord have mercy, but just like how they don't want to keep getting scored on after they've clearly been beaten for cosmetic purposes, the offense wants to keep pumping up their points for cosmetic purposes. 

[Jlowe22]

1 minute ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

Plus it's the damn NFL, running up the score? Please. If you don't like it, make a stop. Honestly glad they kept the foot on the gas to truly embarrass these guys and am ashamed that Malcolm took so much offense to it when he is the damn leader of the D. I understand the frustration, at a point they're probably just thinking lord have mercy, but just like how they don't want to keep getting scored on after they've clearly been beaten for cosmetic purposes, the offense wants to keep pumping up their points for cosmetic purposes. 

I agree, and also, I would rather a team play hard for a while longer than they should than pull starters early.  IMO, that's more embarrassing.  I mean, the game was over, but the 4th and 7 play was still early in the fourth quarter.  

[Thomas5737]

13 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

I agree, and also, I would rather a team play hard for a while longer than they should than pull starters early.  IMO, that's more embarrassing.  I mean, the game was over, but the 4th and 7 play was still early in the fourth quarter.  

Yeah and the Saints blew a 3 TD lead a couple weeks prior so I get pounding that last nail in a little harder than what looks necessary. If it wasn't the Eagles, say it was the Giants, I think they would have been easier on them. The Eagles are the defending champs, they better not take them lightly even though the game looked lopsided. The Rams game looked lopsided at the half too.

[Jlowe22]

1 minute ago, Thomas5737 said:

Yeah and the Saints blew a 3 TD lead a couple weeks prior so I get pounding that last nail in a little harder than what looks necessary. If it wasn't the Eagles, say it was the Giants, I think they would have been easier on them. The Eagles are the defending champs, they better not take them lightly even though the game looked lopsided. The Rams game looked lopsided at the half too.

Yes, with the defense Saints are used too, no lead is really safe.  At least, that's the mindset.

[pwny]

One thing I’ll note is that when he was a rookie, I watched him and came away believing he didn’t have the arm strength to thread an out route. QBs who can’t make that throw don’t make it in the NFL, and Goff just couldn’t do it from what I saw.

Nearly two years later, and the out route is one of his best routes and he throws it better than all but very few guys out there.

We can point to Gurley being the catalyst of the offense, and we can say McVay is scheming him into good situations, but Goff has grown a lot as a player too. This isn’t a team masking a player’s obvious deficiencies, it’s a team developing a player’s deficiencies into strengths and using those to find success.

[showtime]

On 11/20/2018 at 10:49 AM, jrry32 said:

I am going to ask this despite the likelihood that I won't like the responses haha. I continuously see the phrase, "Stop Gurley and make Goff beat you if you want to beat the Rams" from other fan-bases. You never hear that about Big Ben, Brees, Rivers, etc. People know that even if you stop Conner/Bell, Big Ben can beat you. It basically treats Goff like he's a liability. However, here are his numbers for the year (along with his rank in the NFL):

258/381

67.7% (8th)

3547 yards (2nd)

9.3 YPA (2nd)

26 TDs (3rd)

6 Ints

113.5 passer rating (3rd)

Approximately, where in the NFL does Goff rank? Top 20? Top 10? Top 5? Why is he still not treated like a guy to be feared?

He had a great season last year and is even better last year.  I've said this a few times, but they're winning games this season that I think they would have lost last season.  There were a few times last season when McVay went away from Gurley and the Rams fell short.  The game against the Chiefs is a prime example of a game the Rams would have lost last year and everyone would be making threads about why McVay abandoned the run.

Goff is definitely one of the best QB's in the league.  He's right up there with Brees and Mahomes this year as a top 3 QB in the game.

[NFLExpert49]

Easily better than Mahomes to anybody who actually watches games instead of reading box scores.

Mahomes seriously isn't even a Top 10 QB in this league. 

[Jlowe22]

5 minutes ago, NFLExpert49 said:

Mahomes seriously isn't even a Top 10 QB in this league. 

Uh-oh

[showtime]

2 hours ago, NFLExpert49 said:

Easily better than Mahomes to anybody who actually watches games instead of reading box scores.

Mahomes seriously isn't even a Top 10 QB in this league. 

Mahomes isn't playing like a top 10 QB in the league this season?  What league are you watching....

[NFLExpert49]

3 hours ago, showtime said:

Mahomes isn't playing like a top 10 QB in the league this season?  What league are you watching....

Hitting the ocean from a rowboat does not impress me. 

 

[showtime]

7 minutes ago, NFLExpert49 said:

Hitting the ocean from a rowboat does not impress me. 

 

37 TD's in his first 11 career games doesn't impress you....  Okay.

[Thelonebillsfan]

Top-8 easily. Good mobility in the pocket, reacts well, reads the field quickly and superb accuracy. Textbook example of why having good fundies is paramount when drafting a QB. It allowed him to settle his base with muscle memory which improved his accuracy on quick outs and his arm strength on middle/intermediate outs to the deep hash on both sides.