How good is Jared Goff?

[blkwdw13]

1 hour ago, stl4life07 said:

You are right about the oline. The Rams drafted guys like Noteboom to sit behind Whitworth a develop. Plus the Rams have one of the best oline coaches in the NFL in Kroemer. So when we talk about Noteboom who is learning and developing behind Whitworth and Blythe who stepped in and is actually an upgrade over Brown who was the starter last season. Havenstein is better than he was last season and thus got an extension so he will be the right tackle for years to come. Then other guys like Demby and Allen (a guy the Rams drafted because he reminded them of Sullivan). Like the Rams future on the oline has good potential down the road when Whitworth and Sullivan is no longer playing for the Rams. 

As for Goff though I agree he doesnt totally deal with pressure well but pretty much every QB doesnt deal with pressure well. The strange then if we are talking about the greatness of Mahomes, he struggles when he has to hold the ball 2.5 seconds or longer. Goff thrives when he has to hold on to the ball 2.5 seconds or longer. Which in a McVay offense, Goff typically has to hold on to the ball 2.5 seconds or longer for the plays to develop. So I find that to be interesting. 

There is a name that Chicago fans don’t like to hear. 

[stl4life07]

9 minutes ago, blkwdw13 said:

There is a name that Chicago fans don’t like to hear. 

I know what you mean lol. In all fairness though he is a very good oline coach. I know people give Whitworth all the credit for the Rams oline being improved and he totally deserve his just due, but Kroemer needs to be acknowledged too. He certainly knows how to develop and coach the players to be really good as a unit. The Rams went from being the worst oline in 2016 to being a top 10 oline in 2017 to now being a top 5 oline this season. Like they instantly got better when he came on board with McVay and they improved even more in his 2nd season on the coaching staff. 

[tyler735]

As it stands today, if I were taking QB's for rest of the year into the playoffs, I'm taking in no order Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Rivers, and Mahomes over Goff.

Obviously many of these guys are getting up there in age, so the future is looking bright for Goff, but I'm taking the guys with more NFL experience over him at this point (Outside of Mahomes, who in my opinion appears to just be more talented). Until I see Goff have success in the playoffs, I'm ranking these guys over him in the short term.

Obviously this will likely change as the veteran QB's retire/regress, and if Goff can have a good postseason this year. I'm still trying to figure out if Goff is more of a Matt Ryan or more of a Peyton Manning in terms of long term potential.

In the future, it appears Goff will be battling Mahomes, Wentz, Luck, Watson, and possibly Trubisky/Mayfield (depending how they develop) for those top 5 spots as they seem to be the future of the NFL at QB at this point in time.

[stl4life07]

4 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

As it stands today, if I were taking QB's for rest of the year into the playoffs, I'm taking in no order Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Rivers, and Mahomes over Goff.

Obviously many of these guys are getting up there in age, so the future is looking bright for Goff, but I'm taking the guys with more NFL experience over him at this point (Outside of Mahomes, who in my opinion appears to just be more talented). Until I see Goff have success in the playoffs, I'm ranking these guys over him in the short term.

Obviously this will likely change as the veteran QB's retire/regress, and if Goff can have a good postseason this year. I'm still trying to figure out if Goff is more of a Matt Ryan or more of a Peyton Manning in terms of long term potential.

In the future, it appears Goff will be battling Mahomes, Wentz, Luck, Watson, and possibly Trubisky/Mayfield (depending how they develop) for those top 5 spots as they seem to be the future of the NFL at QB at this point in time.

Regardless if he is more Ryan or Peyton he is in good hands. Peyton is to me top 3 of all-time. When I think of Ryan I think of the Ryan with Shanny. With Shanny Ryan had his best season of his career, he won MVP, and had a 28-3 lead in the Superbowl. 99% of the time the Falcons win that Superbowl. So Goff with McVay can be the version of Ryan with Shanny in my opinion. Ill take either Ryan or Peyton if Goff turns out to be either one.

With that being said, looking at your list Im taking Goff over all of them with the exception of Brees, Brady, and ARod. Give me Goff over Rivers, Big Ben, and Mahomes. The reason why is because Rivers once again reminded me of him falling short against a team he should beat in the Broncos. Big Ben gets so wreckless more times than not and it showed once again against the Jaguars. Mahomes is talented but talent can only get you so far especially if you have those tendencies to turn the ball over like he has been since back in his days at Texas Tech. The biggest knock on him coming out was that he doesnt play within the structure of the offense alot. Same can be said with Big Ben. Those QBs are going to wow you but at the same time they are going to leave you shaking your ahead as to why they threw that interception. People compare Mahomes to Favre but I remember Favre going to the Superdome in the playoffs and turning the ball over like crazy and losing. Guess what? I thought the Vikings was the better team but the team couldnt overcome all those turnovers. I saw Favre go in St. Louis and throw 5 interceptions against the Rams in the playoffs and loss. People are coming away from the MNF game saying the Chiefs are the better team but they cant overcome 5 turnovers by Mahomes. I dont want my QB to self-destruct because its hard to win the NFL as it is especially against the good to great teams in the NFL but when you turn the ball over alot its even harder especially on the road.

[tyler735]

28 minutes ago, stl4life07 said:

Regardless if he is more Ryan or Peyton he is in good hands. Peyton is to me top 3 of all-time. When I think of Ryan I think of the Ryan with Shanny. With Shanny Ryan had his best season of his career, he won MVP, and had a 28-3 lead in the Superbowl. 99% of the time the Falcons win that Superbowl. So Goff with McVay can be the version of Ryan with Shanny in my opinion. Ill take either Ryan or Peyton if Goff turns out to be either one.

With that being said, looking at your list Im taking Goff over all of them with the exception of Brees, Brady, and ARod. Give me Goff over Rivers, Big Ben, and Mahomes. The reason why is because Rivers once again reminded me of him falling short against a team he should beat in the Broncos. Big Ben gets so wreckless more times than not and it showed once again against the Jaguars. Mahomes is talented but talent can only get you so far especially if you have those tendencies to turn the ball over like he has been since back in his days at Texas Tech. The biggest knock on him coming out was that he doesnt play within the structure of the offense alot. Same can be said with Big Ben. Those QBs are going to wow you but at the same time they are going to leave you shaking your ahead as to why they threw that interception. People compare Mahomes to Favre but I remember Favre going to the Superdome in the playoffs and turning the ball over like crazy and losing. Guess what? I thought the Vikings was the better team but the team couldnt overcome all those turnovers. I saw Favre go in St. Louis and throw 5 interceptions against the Rams in the playoffs and loss. People are coming away from the MNF game saying the Chiefs are the better team but they cant overcome 5 turnovers by Mahomes. I dont want my QB to self-destruct because its hard to win the NFL as it is especially against the good to great teams in the NFL but when you turn the ball over alot its even harder especially on the road.

I suppose I could have been more clear with that Manning/Ryan comment. It essentially meant is Goff going to be a yearly top 3 QB (Manning), or is he going to be a fringe top 5 QB with some great years sprinkled in followed by solid years (Ryan). At this point I don't know what to make of him. He's shown some great flashes.

I suppose we will have to wait and see on Mahomes being turnover prone. The interceptions last game weren't ideal, but even the best QB's in NFL history have had worse games than that from a turnover standpoint. What I do know is Mahomes can make plays that Goff simply can't, and Goff really doesn't make plays that Mahomes can't consistently replicate.

As for taking Goff over Roethlisberger. I'm taking the guy that's shown he can succeed in the postseason and has shown he can still put up a gritty performance to win the game against the Jaguars last week doing what he's done most of his career in that situation with the game on the line. I was going back and forth on Rivers for the reasons you mentioned.

[blkwdw13]

4 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

I know what you mean lol. In all fairness though he is a very good oline coach. I know people give Whitworth all the credit for the Rams oline being improved and he totally deserve his just due, but Kroemer needs to be acknowledged too. He certainly knows how to develop and coach the players to be really good as a unit. The Rams went from being the worst oline in 2016 to being a top 10 oline in 2017 to now being a top 5 oline this season. Like they instantly got better when he came on board with McVay and they improved even more in his 2nd season on the coaching staff. 

http://www.espn.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/12019111/chicago-bears-offensive-coordinator-aaron-kromer-tearfully-apologizes-criticizing-jay-cutler

He was part of the whole Trestman era that was a complete disaster and dysfunctional. 

[stl4life07]

27 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

I suppose I could have been more clear with that Manning/Ryan comment. It essentially meant is Goff going to be a yearly top 3 QB (Manning), or is he going to be a fringe top 5 QB with some great years sprinkled in followed by solid years (Ryan). At this point I don't know what to make of him. He's shown some great flashes.

I suppose we will have to wait and see on Mahomes being turnover prone. The interceptions last game weren't ideal, but even the best QB's in NFL history have had worse games than that from a turnover standpoint. What I do know is Mahomes can make plays that Goff simply can't, and Goff really doesn't make plays that Mahomes can't consistently replicate.

As for taking Goff over Roethlisberger. I'm taking the guy that's shown he can succeed in the postseason and has shown he can still put up a gritty performance to win the game against the Jaguars last week doing what he's done most of his career in that situation with the game on the line. I was going back and forth on Rivers for the reasons you mentioned.

I get what you are saying about Ryan. I only mentioned that with Ryan because he was matched up with the perfect guy in Shanny to bring the best out of him. I feel the same way about Cam having Turner. Like I truly believe if Ryan had Shanny for the majority of his career he wouldnt have those up and down seasons. It would be a steady great career. We just saw a glimpse of it with Shanny before he got a head coaching job. We are going to see Jimmy G do some great things with Shanny for a long time and Im going to to sit back and say that couldve been Ryan if Shanny was still coaching him. But thats how I feel about Goff with McVay. Goff is going to be a top 5 QB consistently because the weapons around him are locked up for years, McVay and his system isnt going anywhere and Goff is only going to get better and better the longer him, McVay and the weapons continue to experience and grow together game after game and year after year. Then you add the unknowns like if Everett can truly be the Rams version of Reed. He showed flashes of what he can do. We know McVay system is really a tight end friendly system. He ran 2 TE system in Washington. Like if Everett and/or Higbee can breakout and be more consistent to add to what Cooks, Woods, and Kupp is doing the Rams offense will be even dangerous. Then you add Kelly. He hasnt been active but we saw some great things from him in the preseason. He is the future of the Rams. He has great hands and he seems to believe he has better hands than Kamara. Like this Rams offense hasnt even scratched the surface on its potential.

But again I only said I would take Goff over Mahomes and Big Ben because the tendencies to not play within the structure of the offense more times than not. We see Big Ben hold on to the ball too long and then make a bad decision. He has turned the ball over 3 times against the Jags one meeting and 5 times in another meeting. In a game against the Browns this season he has turned the ball over at least 3 times and they blew a big 4th quarter lead at home that ended up in a tie. I mentioned a stat that Mahomes gets worst when he has 2.5 seconds or longer with the football. On the flip side, Goff gets better when he has 2.5 seconds or longer with the football. But Im not ignoring Big Ben accomplishments or Mahomes special talent. Im just saying those guys can frustrate you just as much as they can impress you with the style of play.

[Chiefer]

Wheres this 2.5 second stat?

Mahomes has been great creating outside the pocket, which is usually longer than 2.5 seconds.

[H.E Pennypacker]

I think it's very easy to say Goff has been a top 5 QB this year. But it really means nothing until January rolls around. He could win the MVP but if he throws 0 tds to 3 picks in divisional round no one will be calling him top 5 overall, he'd be fringe top 10 at that stage.

As of week 11 he has probably had the 3rd best season after Brees and Mahomes.

Who do I want in the playoffs? The edge is still with the veterans. Give me Brees-Brady-Wilson-Ben-Rodgers-Rivers-Ryan-Luck-Cam in that order and then Mahomes-Goff-Wentz-Watson. I'll trust an old head until the young guys get more experience and win a playoff game or 2.

 

 

[Piquel]

9 hours ago, Chiefer said:

Wheres this 2.5 second stat?

Mahomes has been great creating outside the pocket, which is usually longer than 2.5 seconds.

Different ways a QB has 2.5 secs.  One is O-line wins across the line and qb has all day to sit in pocket and wait for wr to uncover.  Other QB is running for his life and buys time.

Mahomes has way more of one type then the other.  

[Non-Issue]

I think he is good enough to justify the trade to get him. And that is good enough for me.

[Riftty]

He's good enough not to call a busy anymore! Yay!

[game3525]

Quote

With that being said, looking at your list Im taking Goff over all of them with the exception of Brees, Brady, and ARod. Give me Goff over Rivers, Big Ben, and Mahomes. The reason why is because Rivers once again reminded me of him falling short against a team he should beat in the Broncos. 

This doesn't make much sense.

Rivers has played in 9 playoff games and has had some very good performances. Goff has played in one playoff game and looked terrible. Until proven otherwise, I don't see how anyone can take Goff over Rivers and especially Ben in the playoffs. 

[jrry32]

11 minutes ago, game3525 said:

This doesn't make much sense.

Rivers has played in 9 playoff games and has had some very good performances. Goff has played in one playoff game and looked terrible. Until proven otherwise, I don't see how anyone can take Goff over Rivers and especially Ben in the playoffs. 

Uh, what?

[stl4life07]

17 hours ago, Chiefer said:

Wheres this 2.5 second stat?

Mahomes has been great creating outside the pocket, which is usually longer than 2.5 seconds.

It was a stat that I think I saw from ESPN Sportscenter.