Referees and their affect on games.

[Thaiphoon]

5 hours ago, ///mcompact said:

"It is a False Start if the ball has been placed ready for play, and, prior to the snap, an offensive player who has assumed a set position charges or moves in such a way as to simulate the start of a play, or if an offensive player who is in motion makes a sudden movement toward the line of scrimmage. Any quick abrupt movement by a single offensive player, or by several offensive players in unison, which simulates the start of the snap, is a false start."

Almost all long snappers have some sort of pre-positioning "ritual" of the ball prior to the snap. We don't see it much because of the camera angle, but they do. There was no "abrupt move".  L.P. LaDouceur has been snapping balls for 14 years in the season. Never called before and he's not going to change how he goes through the motion.  Was it not Gruden that bragged about gaming the refs and telling one of their defensemen to "look for it" (aka..jump)? The ref from the Redskins side of field (not the ref over-seeing the center) threw the flag. But whatever. 

And we'll see clarification of the rule next year after the Competition Committee meets.    "L.P. Rule" will be born.   Nothing new for Dallas fans.

https://www.wfaa.com/article/sports/nfl/cowboys/the-11-nfl-rule-changes-inspired-by-cowboys-players/287-426219509

 

And yet...it was called correctly. He double clutched. 

As for gaming the refs, every team talks to refs to tell them that seen something the refs should watch for. 

As for rule clarification, that may be true. But under the current rules, it was a penalty. So arguing it wasn't a penalty when it was under the current rules, is about as ridiculous as arguing Dez caught the ball (he didn't under the rules in place then).

The rules were correctly followed in those two calls ^^^.

They weren't in our last two games where two (actually 4) blatant calls weren't made this game (forgot the hold on Kerrigan on the 90 yard TD and the facemask of Colt being turned sideways and no FM call) and the no PI call at the end of the Texans game. It made the difference in the Texans game. But the helmet to helmet no-call didn't in this one. Still, with the emphasis on helmet to helmet and how even the most ticky tack ones are called, its kinda bogus that the egregious one against a star player (with a history of concussions) wasn't called. And its not like the refs could say they missed it. Its their job to watch the catch.

YMMV.

[stl4life07]

I think we as fans find too much fault in the referees especially if our team loses in the game. Sometimes its rightfully to point out the bad or missed calls. I find it curious though that the NFL sent their all-star referee crew for the MNF game and fans still talk about how bad they were. Like if thats the best crew the NFL has to offer and people say the referees still did a poor job, where do the NFL go from there?

[RabidPanther89]

I can't stand NFL referees. They influence the game way too much. We all know they even do make up calls when they get the previous play wrong. The best thing to do is allow teams to challenge PI,  illegal contact and unnecessary roughness. These athletes and coaches work way too hard for a game to be ruined by a ref making a horrible call. The more they are checked the better. Not only are they subject to human error, but they are also prone to bias.

People say, "Well if they challenge penalty's then the game will last forever". Well so what. I'm already spending 3 and half hours watching a game. I'd rather invest more time knowing my team legitimately lost to a better team than being pissed off because an official ruined the game. These games are so contested that a few plays is the difference in a win or loss. These are the best athletes in the world and the margin for error is so small. Unless you are stomping everyone you play, a bad call makes an impact.

[AlNFL19]

I think people make a way too big deal about the referees. They'll make bad calls sometimes, but that'll happen no matter who the referees or what the situation or whatever. Complaining about the referees is just not a productive way to spend your time. As for the previous comments about the most-penalized teams, teams that are well-coached will generally commit less penalties. New England is the obvious example at No. 1, while LA and Minnesota and others are top 10 teams in penalties per game. Even the Jaguars last year complained that the Patriots only got called for 1 penalty in the AFCCG, which I think is a little ridiculous. That's called being disciplined. 

[Chiefer]

1 hour ago, AlNFL19 said:

I think people make a way too big deal about the referees. They'll make bad calls sometimes, but that'll happen no matter who the referees or what the situation or whatever. Complaining about the referees is just not a productive way to spend your time. As for the previous comments about the most-penalized teams, teams that are well-coached will generally commit less penalties. New England is the obvious example at No. 1, while LA and Minnesota and others are top 10 teams in penalties per game. Even the Jaguars last year complained that the Patriots only got called for 1 penalty in the AFCCG, which I think is a little ridiculous. That's called being disciplined. 

But you can call holding on every play

[///mcompact]

11 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

And yet...it was called correctly. He double clutched. 

Under which rule?

You brought up the rulebook and I just gave you an excerpt of the "rule" that would pertain to that call.  Where is the term "Double clutching" in the rule book?  There was nothing "abrupt" or "simulated" about what he or any other long snapper do or else that would be flagged on a regular basis.   

The NFL, after the debacle, called it "Illegal ball movement". But, as it was pointed out by the usual sports mediots, that isn't in the rule book. 

It's not even a "snap infraction" as the ball wasn't even snapped yet:

1. The snap must start with the ball on the ground, with its long axis horizontal and at right angles to the line.
2. It is not necessary that the snap be between the snapper’s legs, but it must be one quick and continuous motion of the hand or hands of the snapper. The ball must leave or be taken from his hands during this motion.

Look for yourself: 

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2018-nfl-rulebook

There's a reason why even Cowboy Haters called it BS.  The only one agreeing with the call is the NFL backoffice and Redskin fans.   

 

[Thaiphoon]

50 minutes ago, ///mcompact said:

Under which rule?

You brought up the rulebook and I just gave you an excerpt of the "rule" that would pertain to that call.  Where is the term "Double clutching" in the rule book?  There was nothing "abrupt" or "simulated" about what he or any other long snapper do or else that would be flagged on a regular basis.   

The NFL, after the debacle, called it "Illegal ball movement". But, as it was pointed out by the usual sports mediots, that isn't in the rule book. 

It's not even a "snap infraction" as the ball wasn't even snapped yet:

1. The snap must start with the ball on the ground, with its long axis horizontal and at right angles to the line.
2. It is not necessary that the snap be between the snapper’s legs, but it must be one quick and continuous motion of the hand or hands of the snapper. The ball must leave or be taken from his hands during this motion.

Look for yourself: 

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2018-nfl-rulebook

There's a reason why even Cowboy Haters called it BS.  The only one agreeing with the call is the NFL backoffice and Redskin fans.   

 

Quote

and, prior to the snap, an offensive player who has assumed a set position charges or moves in such a way as to simulate the start of a play...

See there ^^^? 

Yeah. When he got set and then double clutched/regripped it and moved the ball, he ran afoul of the rules. He is the snapper. And he moves the ball a lot. Including regripping to get a better grip. That movement simulated the start of the snap. Hence why our ST coach noticed it and why it was relayed to the officials. And hence why it was called.

Do LS do it a lot? I'm sure. But it doesn't mean that its not an infraction. Is it rarely called? Yes. Just like PI is rarely called on Hail Mary's. Usually officials look the other way on that. And with our ST coach telling the DL to jump if he does it, it causes the officials to have to call it.

 

Now, with all THAT ^^ said...do I agree with you that it should be further clarified to not be an infraction next year? You bet. Just like I agreed that I would've called the Dez incompletion a catch and I wanted the stupid catch rule changed (which they mercifully did this year).  But the Dez "catch" was ruled correctly at the time with the rules in place at the time.

 

[///mcompact]

4 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

See there ^^^? 

Yeah. When he got set and then double clutched/regripped it and moved the ball, he ran afoul of the rules. He is the snapper. And he moves the ball a lot. Including regripping to get a better grip. 

"It is a False Start if the ball has been placed ready for play, and, prior to the snap, an offensive player who has assumed a set position charges or moves in such a way as to simulate the start of a play, or if an offensive player who is in motion makes a sudden movement toward the line of scrimmage. Any quick abrupt movement by a single offensive player, or by several offensive players in unison, which simulates the start of the snap, is a false start."

We're just looking at this from different lenses.     

 

[Slappy Mc]

The Philly-NYG game ends on a leg whip that wasn’t called. They have been so bad this year. 

With all the scrutiny and fines the players receive for “player safety” and all that nonsense, these refs have not been fined once...

 

[lancerman]

You have to realize these things. 

1. These are the best football refs in the world. They worked their way up from Pop Warner to Division 1 NCAA. They were the cream of the crop at every level to move up and they literally needed to wait for someone to retire to break into the NFL and compete with a dozen other highly touted referees. You aren't getting better referees. 

2. The rules right now are so convoluted and the NFL rules committee sends down mandates to emphasize certain things depending on safety and how the fans react. So in addition to the ridiculous rules you have their bosses telling them what to focus on. 

3. This game is incredibly fast and difficult to referee even if the two things I said above were not the case.

[BlaqOptic]

NFL Officiating will always be questionable. The one chance that we had to fix it, the general NFL fan caved and the refs were able to win and retain all of their power. Thanks to the Fail Mary, everyone pretended the replacement refs were doing so much worse than the regular refs when they weren't. Fail Mary happened, refs win with their demands, and are basically incapable of being punished. Don't let one little ref getting fired fool you. Bad refs still get playoff games, etc. It's gonna take a massive series of blunders during the Super BOwl to fix NFL oficiating. Otherwise, teams and fans will just continue to get letters on Tuesdays apologizing for missed calls that caused a team to win or lose.

[BlaqOptic]

4 hours ago, Slappy Mc said:

The Philly-NYG game ends on a leg whip that wasn’t called. They have been so bad this year. 

With all the scrutiny and fines the players receive for “player safety” and all that nonsense, these refs have not been fined once...

 

One of the worst officiated games I've ever seen.

[Slappy Mc]

Officiating in Saints-Cowboys game has been terrible. Obvious Cowboys bias.

[Raves]

22 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Officiating in Saints-Cowboys game has been terrible. Obvious Cowboys bias.

Obvious is an understatement.  You might as well put them in Cowboys jerseys and have Jerry Jones hand them their game checks during halftime.

[Malfatron]

43 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Officiating in Saints-Cowboys game has been terrible. Obvious Cowboys bias.

reminds me of seahawks - packers a couple weeks ago