POST GAME GB at MIN week 12 (24-17 Loss, 4-6-1)

[Golfman]

7 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

This insane Tonyan love needs to stop.  He's had one big play on a busted coverage, and suddenly he's a future stud.  Why?

I think this is more fans wanting to see what we have in the unknown. The reason is because the known isn't getting it done. Can this kid develop into a back up or strong 3rd string option? If so, great one less player we need, but let's find out otherwise now rather than assume he can next year and find out he can't. 

[MacReady]

Just now, Golfman said:

PLEASE go back and point out where I stated he was 'injury prone'! I'll wait here sipping on my coffee! 

Alright, you didn't.  You didn't say he should be cut because he's injury prone, which makes your stance worse, not better.  You don't cut good offensive linemen.  That's the end of the discussion.  Cutting a good offensive linemen for no G-Damn reason makes less sense than pooping your pants and howling at the moon. 

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, Golfman said:

I'd make offensive line both T and interior major priorities in the draft. I think rookies can have success at RT while it takes a year or so for most to be able to move to LT. Even if we keep Bulaga, which may be likely, we'd better have a solid back up plan in place if he goes down or starts to really struggle given all wear and tear his body has endured. 

I'm not seeing it in Spriggs. You going to count on Light? Worse, planning on Madison coming out of 'retirement'? You are going to need to spend a 1st or 2nd at T and a few mid round picks on interior guys. 

I would agree about OL being a bigger need than I think most would.  But you're not going to spend the money better on someone else other than Bulaga.  And it's not like he's played poorly this year.  Maybe you kick him inside to guard, and take care of two birds with one stone.  I'd agree that we're taking an OL relatively early, but you're looking past 2019 with that pick.  I don't see anything in Spriggs that is going to change.  The same things that killed him early in his career are still happening.  And I've been on record saying that if we even get Cole Madison to show up to camp next year, it's a HUGE win.

[Golfman]

6 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Alright, you didn't.  You didn't say he should be cut because he's injury prone, which makes your stance worse, not better.  You don't cut good offensive linemen.  That's the end of the discussion.  Cutting a good offensive linemen for no G-Damn reason makes less sense than pooping your pants and howling at the moon. 

Your reasoning is past performance will ensure future results. That doesn't work with guys who've had the kind of serious injuries like Bulaga. He MAY have one year left and if they keep him, I'm OK with it, but not if we go with Spriggs as the back up plan again. 

The more likely scenario is where Bulaga is out more than he's in in 2019. 

[FAH1223]

 

[Acrid Josher]

1 hour ago, skibrett15 said:

ESB clearly can create separation vs man coverage.  He looks every bit as good as MVS to me running routes and with the ball in his hands.  Neither have gotten any contested catch opportunities that I can recall to date.

MVS has had at least one (I think a couple) long contested balls, one of which he made. My memory of this season for the specific opponent is hazy at this point but pretty sure on the specifics of at least one such catch.

[Golfman]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I would agree about OL being a bigger need than I think most would.  But you're not going to spend the money better on someone else other than Bulaga.  And it's not like he's played poorly this year.  Maybe you kick him inside to guard, and take care of two birds with one stone.  I'd agree that we're taking an OL relatively early, but you're looking past 2019 with that pick.  I don't see anything in Spriggs that is going to change.  The same things that killed him early in his career are still happening.  And I've been on record saying that if we even get Cole Madison to show up to camp next year, it's a HUGE win.

I agree with all of this, but planning on Bulaga for 16 games is not good planning. I like the guy, but the amount of serious injuries make it more likely than not, he's going to miss some or a lot of time next year. 

I agree on Madison, if his heart is into it. No idea what we have in the kid and can only HOPE for the best. Hope is not a strategy however. 

[MacReady]

Just now, Golfman said:

The more likely scenario is we are Bulaga is out more than he's in in 2019. 

Yeah, sure, mhmm.  A 30-year-old offensive lineman is cooked because of past injuries when he's been a highly-rated offensive lineman at 29.

Because we all know that offensive lineman fall off the cliff right at 30 years old. 

For God's sake, he's 29.  He's not 34.  He's two years older than Bakhtiari. 

[Howler]

"I just see, offensively, a lack of creativity," Harrison said. "As a defensive player, nobody is afraid. I wouldn't be afraid of this offense. They don't make you think, they don't make you adjust, and the only thing really exotic about their offense is Aaron Rodgers running around, scrambling and making incredible throws down the field."

Added Dungy: "I'm going to go one step above that to the front office. They have not replaced their passing game—their receivers—with star players. They have Rodgers; he's one of the three best players in the league. When we had Peyton Manning, we stocked it up, always. Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Joseph Addai, Brandon Stokley—make sure you get him stars. They only have one big-time player and that's Davante Adams."

[Golfman]

2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Yeah, sure, mhmm.  A 30-year-old offensive lineman is cooked because of past injuries when he's been a highly-rated offensive lineman at 29.

Because we all know that offensive lineman fall off the cliff right at 30 years old. 

For God's sake, he's 29.  He's not 34.  He's two years older than Bakhtiari. 

He's 29 calendar years, the injuries make him closer to 34 from an ability standpoint. I'll repeat myself once again as you are slow on the uptake. It is better to move on one year too SOON than too LATE!

[vegas492]

16 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

This insane Tonyan love needs to stop.  He's had one big play on a busted coverage, and suddenly he's a future stud.  Why?

 

10 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Size.  Speed.  Brain.  Hands.

And I need to feel like we have a tight end worth developing.  Every year we seem to have one and it craps out.  I want this time to be different because this kid makes plays when he is on the field.  Okay, he made A play....during regular season and a couple nice grabs in pre-season against guys who may be out of the league already.

I feel like his brain is different because he played QB and WR.  To me, he looks a little like Owen Daniels.  Soft hands, smart.

I could post his measureables, but you know them.  They are impressive.  You will counter with Bostic's measureables, which too were impressive.  The difference between the two, to me, is that one has played the QB position, so I'm hoping his brain can understand coverages and offensive schemes better than most tight end.  He also played WR, so I'm hoping that his hands are better than typical developmental tight ends.

But again...I need hope that we can finally try to develop a kid.  And if it isn't this one, then we need to draft one and we are 3 years away from getting anything out of him.  At least we are a year into this one and he's already made a big play.

 

9 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

He's literally no different than Brandon Bostick at this moment before his mental gaffe.  I mean, I'm not saying we should give up on him, but there's been nothing to indicate that he's the future at anything.

Come on, CWood, you gotta give me the brain. That is the difference.  To me, that kind of brain that has played QB before is worth trying to develop.  Kid has the athletic ability.  Let's try to work with him.  And to be clear...I'm not replacing Graham with him.  I'm complimenting Graham with him.

[CWood21]

3 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Come on, CWood, you gotta give me the brain. That is the difference.  To me, that kind of brain that has played QB before is worth trying to develop.  Kid has the athletic ability.  Let's try to work with him.  And to be clear...I'm not replacing Graham with him.  I'm complimenting Graham with him.

You don't pay Jimmy Graham $10M/year to be a complimentary TE, unless you expect Mac to suddenly starting running more 2 TE looks you're taking him off the field in favor of Tonyan.  That isn't happening.  LIS, I'm not advocating giving up on him, but there's nothing there that discourages me from looking to add a player or two this offseason.  And even less that really instills any level of confidence in him.

[Arthur Penske]

24 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

This insane Tonyan love needs to stop.  He's had one big play on a busted coverage, and suddenly he's a future stud.  Why?

Calling on more than 1 snap for your most athletic TE with Graham out is insane love and implying he's a future stud? Ok.

[TransientTexan]

28 minutes ago, Golfman said:

I'd love to know how many of those sacks were because Rodgers held the ball too long. I think his aversion to INT's is counterproductive at times. I'd almost say his TD/INT ratio can be seen as a negative because he doesn't take some necessary risks. 

I think some are from him holding the ball too long when he shouldn't. Other times it could be that WR's are just taking a long time to separate. Bottom line is that the OL has not been the problem most of the time.

Rodgers has the 8th-longest average time-to-sack in the league. Similarly most of his other stats like time-to-throw are some of the longest in the league. In all his dropbacks that lasted 2.5s or less, he's listed with 5 sacks on the year, vs. 29 sacks on dropbacks that lasted 2.6s or more. 

[MacReady]

Just now, Golfman said:

He's 29 calendar years, the injuries make him closer to 34 from an ability standpoint. I'll repeat myself once again as you are slow on the uptake. It is better to move on one year too SOON than too LATE!

Lol.  Rodgers must be 37 by this logic.  If he's 34 by your weird calculations and playing as well as a 29-year-old right tackle, he'll be 35 next year and able to play like a 30-year-old right tackle. 

I'm not slow on the uptake, I know exactly what you're saying.  Your uptake is stupid and makes no sense.