Golfman Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 49 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: I'd pay money to be a fly on the wall during that meeting. McCarthy would probably be savage. Yeah, I don't think he's got that in him. Otherwise, he'd be 'savage' now with Rodgers, or Favre for that matter when he wished he'd benched him at halftime of the NFCCG in 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 Just for giggles... Offensive rankings Saints, 2018....4'th in total yards. 1st in points per game. Defensive rankings Saints, 2018...15'th in total yards. 15'th in points per game. Offensive rankings Packers, 2018...10'th in total yards. 16'th in points per game. (Outpost is right...red zone woes.) Defensive rankings Packers, 2018...12'th in total yards. 16'th in points per game. We are eerily balanced. I'd opine that if Mac's offense would be top 5, as the Saints were all those years, GB would be ahead of Chicago in the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 1 minute ago, vegas492 said: Just for giggles... Offensive rankings Saints, 2018....4'th in total yards. 1st in points per game. Defensive rankings Saints, 2018...15'th in total yards. 15'th in points per game. Offensive rankings Packers, 2018...10'th in total yards. 16'th in points per game. (Outpost is right...red zone woes.) Defensive rankings Packers, 2018...12'th in total yards. 16'th in points per game. We are eerily balanced. I'd opine that if Mac's offense would be top 5, as the Saints were all those years, GB would be ahead of Chicago in the division. Not being a smart ***, but what is your point to all of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 I just think we have to protect ourselves against the oh here we go again from the locker room if we dropped a game next year with him still that we expected to win that a new coach is going to get more of a pass for. That kind of thing. It's just finally run its course for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, Golfman said: Not being a smart ***, but what is your point to all of this? In the first post, I said I wanted to try to debunk this myth that Payton was a bad coach during those year in which the record wasn't good. Offensively, he was excellent. Defense was the huge liability. Then...in the post you replied to...I said just for giggles because I was curious. The Saints defense is middle of the road, like GB's is. The difference is offense. Pure and simple. Payton hasn't had a slump like Mac has had. And if Mac wasn't in an offensive slump, for whatever reason, I think GB would be just fine given how their defense ranks. Tells me get a new system and things can get better in a hurry. And me? I don't care if the new system comes with a new head coach or the old head coach. But one way or the other, if they get more productive on offense, things will be more than just fine...they will also be dandy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 16 minutes ago, vegas492 said: There, myth debunked, Payton's offense held up it's end of the bargain. Defense was the liability. Sure that falls to the head coach, but let's not act like Payton's offense ever struggled like Macs has lately. Well so has MMs offense..but we are looking at the full team here. Since 2008, Payton has had the 6.0th best dvoa offense on average. MM has had the 5.4th best dvoa offense (excluding 2013 and 2017 where Rodgers missed significant time). Even this year, Payton is 3rd, MM is 6th (with a banged up Rodgers for much of it). The entire point is that Payton's team struggled for a stretch. Then they got a talent influx. And voila. MMs teams are struggling comparatively less. Time will tell if GB FO is as patient as NOs was. Let's not pretend like there weren't calls to fire Payton years ago too... Very comparable situations, actually. What do you think of NOs decision to stick with Payton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACKRULE Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, vegas492 said: I'm going to try to debunk this myth that Payton had a bad stretch...keep in mind as I type this, I don't know which way it is going to go. Before I do the research, I'm guessing that the Saints lost due to defensive inadequacies, not poor offensive play. Payton is an offensive minded head coach, as is McCarthy. If they are to be judged, let it be on offense first. So....here I go...I see that the mighty Saints went 7-9 2012, 2014, 2015 and 2016. I believe Brees was healthy for those 4 seasons. Offensive rankings in 2012...2nd in total yards per game. 3rd in points per game. Defensive rankings in 2012...32nd in total yards per game. 31st in points per game. Offensive rankings in 2014...1st in total yards. 9th points per game. Defensive rankings in 2014...31st in total yards per game. 28'th points per game. Offensive rankings in 2015....2nd in total yards. 8'th in points per game. Defensive rankings in 2015...31st in total yards per game. 32nd in points per game. Offensive rankings in 2016...1st in total yards per game. 2nd in points per game. Defensive rankings in 2016...27'th in total yards per game. 31st in points per game. There, myth debunked, Payton's offense held up it's end of the bargain. Defense was the liability. Sure that falls to the head coach, but let's not act like Payton's offense ever struggled like Macs has lately. Well pointed out Vegas i wanted to add some comments to Outpost and Icog's stuff about keeping MM. MM has shown nothing these last couple years to show he's capable of turning things around. His slow to start and not keeping a HOF QB on task is gone. It's clear change is needed just like it was on the DC side. Not everyone is BB and if MM could put this on the D that would be great but he can't. Why will our QB not throw to RB's, why not to rooks, why on 3rd and short do we always throw it deep? Those are mostly on MM, they are based on our concepts and his outdated thought process. I love MM, wish he had things sorted out but week in and week out we look worse when we still have the HOF QB. Heck 6 points in the last 2 games second halves? What is up there. Once can see he's trying but him trying looks painful and well just not right. His efforts yesterday to pull the ball out of AR's hands and run the ball show he can try, but then he doesn't seem to know when to put it back in AR's hand and when to get 3 yards on a pass or short dump off. I think a few posters are so scared of change that they thinking keeping MM is the answer. They blame the players, which MM is responsible for. MM has had enough time to sort this out and he's gotten worse and it shows. His game planning and playcalling are just gone maybe he needs this change as much as anyone does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 21 minutes ago, vegas492 said: There, myth debunked, Payton's offense held up it's end of the bargain. Defense was the liability. Sure that falls to the head coach, but let's not act like Payton's offense ever struggled like Macs has lately. Well so has MMs offense..but we are looking at the full team here. Since 2008, Payton has had the 6.0th best dvoa offense on average. MM has had the 5.4th best dvoa offense (excluding 2013 and 2017 where Rodgers missed significant time). Even this year, Payton is 3rd, MM is 6th (with a banged up Rodgers for much of it). The entire point is that Payton's team struggled for a stretch. Then they got a talent influx. And voila. MMs teams are struggling comparatively less. Time will tell if GB FO is as patient as NOs was. Let's not pretend like there weren't calls to fire Payton years ago too... Very comparable situations, actually. What do you think of NOs decision to stick with Payton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 1 minute ago, incognito_man said: Well so has MMs offense..but we are looking at the full team here. Since 2008, Payton has had the 6.0th best dvoa offense on average. MM has had the 5.4th best dvoa offense (excluding 2013 and 2017 where Rodgers missed significant time). Even this year, Payton is 3rd, MM is 6th (with a banged up Rodgers for much of it). The entire point is that Payton's team struggled for a stretch. Then they got a talent influx. And voila. MMs teams are struggling comparatively less. Time will tell if GB FO is as patient as NOs was. Let's not pretend like there weren't calls to fire Payton years ago too... Very comparable situations, actually. What do you think of NOs decision to stick with Payton? Hmm... did NO's offense ever have a down year like this for GB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACKRULE Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 1 minute ago, incognito_man said: Well so has MMs offense..but we are looking at the full team here. Since 2008, Payton has had the 6.0th best dvoa offense on average. MM has had the 5.4th best dvoa offense (excluding 2013 and 2017 where Rodgers missed significant time). Even this year, Payton is 3rd, MM is 6th (with a banged up Rodgers for much of it). The entire point is that Payton's team struggled for a stretch. Then they got a talent influx. And voila. MMs teams are struggling comparatively less. Time will tell if GB FO is as patient as NOs was. Let's not pretend like there weren't calls to fire Payton years ago too... Very comparable situations, actually. What do you think of NOs decision to stick with Payton? So how much more talent does NO have over us prior to injuries? So our Oline is still together, we have a decent RB, we have a PB 1 WR and we can't score points, we fall flat on our face drive in and drive out. 6 points in 2 halves of football? 0 for on the road this year. I've battled you before we have some talent we have shown we can play with anyone. Sure a couple mistakes this year have hurt, but MM hasn't fixed his part. We started that game out awesome last night and drive by drive it got worse, and worse to the point of oh well a loss. The D held up their end of the bargain and the O fell short again MM's area of expertise. Let me guess was is the drive Bahk got hurt that killed it or coming out in the 3rd with the ball and doing absolutely nothing. Everyone on O was fine that's MM totally talent had nothing to do with that. Brees, Brady, Manning all the greats throw to young receivers...........Not AR........who's fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBitzMan Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Well so has MMs offense..but we are looking at the full team here. Since 2008, Payton has had the 6.0th best dvoa offense on average. MM has had the 5.4th best dvoa offense (excluding 2013 and 2017 where Rodgers missed significant time). Even this year, Payton is 3rd, MM is 6th (with a banged up Rodgers for much of it). The entire point is that Payton's team struggled for a stretch. Then they got a talent influx. And voila. MMs teams are struggling comparatively less. Time will tell if GB FO is as patient as NOs was. Let's not pretend like there weren't calls to fire Payton years ago too... Very comparable situations, actually. What do you think of NOs decision to stick with Payton? Because Payton's offense never struggled. His defense was the worst in history. I really don't think this is hard at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said: Hmm... did NO's offense ever have a down year like this for GB? They finished outside the top 10 twice (2007 and 2010). MM (with Rodgers) has twice as well (2008 and 2015). All 4 of these examples were ranks of 11 and 12 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 Just now, TheBitzMan said: Because Payton's offense never struggled. His defense was the worst in history. I really don't think this is hard at all. His offense has historically "struggled" more than McCarthy's (with Rodgers). Sorry, the facts don't support your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 5 minutes ago, PACKRULE said: So how much more talent does NO have over us prior to injuries? Just take at look at their recent draft capital, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 10 minutes ago, incognito_man said: The entire point is that Payton's team struggled for a stretch. Then they got a talent influx. And voila. I'm only going to respond to this and say that we agree to disagree. Their offense gained Kamara and it is on pace to be the same offense that they had for years. Defensively they got better. They got to a point where GB is at currently. That offensive head coach has never had a spell like the past two years that McCarthy has had. And you aren't telling me that Brees was 100% healthy during that time. Sure Rodgers went down last year, but let's not sit here and think for one second that Brees was 100% healthy this entire time. Payton advances the offensive concepts. Mac has not. If Mac had, given this defense, we'd have a New Orleans like record right now. I'm on record here sitting the fence on the status of Mac, I get both sides of it. But I'm not going to pretend that he hasn't had an offensive slump, especially compared to Payton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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