16th Coach of the GB Packers (let the search begin)

[Danish Cheesehead]

 

[SSG]

11 minutes ago, PackGymRat said:

Josh McDaniels did well enough in Denver with what he had. Was young and bit naive. 

McDaniels is clearly in another league compared to other assistants before him.

But if you guys rather go to DeFliipo, Gase, or Monken Be my guest. That’s a bigger shot in the dark. Obviously the Phins saw something in Gase that made them question wether he would be the long term solution. They made the same conclusion with Joe Philbin and I don’t think anyone is questioning that decision.

LaFleur is McVay type dark horse, that might sneak through.

Well enough in Denver?  His coaching tenure in Denver was as bad as any coaching tenure in recent NFL history.  He took over an 8 win team and turned them into a 4 win team.  On the way he had the front office, coaching staff and team hating him because of his leadership, attitude and people skills.  That wasn't a team that was that far away before McDaniels and  he turned them into one of the worst teams in the league (they drafted #2 the year after JMcD). Players couldn't get away from him fast enough.  As far as head coaching tenures, Gase was a substantially better coach with a lot less talent.

Why is McDaniels clearly in another league?  He did a horrid job in Denver.  After Denver he was responsible for the NFL's worst offense in St Louis (32nd in yards/ 31st in points).  Without McDaniels New England had an elite Super Bowl offense still.  6th in points/ 3rd in yards, 1st in points/ 8th in yards and 3rd in points/ 2nd in yards.  

Yeah, coaches get fired.  Miami was a lot less certain about the firing of Gase that Denver was about their canning of McDaniels who they canned midseason.  Like I said earlier, I'm not advocating for Gase just pointing out that there is absolutely nothing that makes McDaniels a better prospect.  

[Arthur Penske]

Sounds like Mcdaniel’s interview went well

 

 

[SSG]

13 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Lol ok dude

What makes him different?  Obviously you aren't interested in even .1% of his time away from New England. Why is he a better candidate than any of the previous New England assistants?  It's funny because I'm fairly certain Detroit fans thought EXACTLY the same thing just last year when they hired the "best candidate in a long time".  It's not like New England missed him when he was destroying the Broncos, why's he now suddenly the perfect can't miss coaching candidate?  

[incognito_man]

8 minutes ago, SSG said:

What makes him different?  Obviously you aren't interested in even .1% of his time away from New England. Why is he a better candidate than any of the previous New England assistants?  It's funny because I'm fairly certain Detroit fans thought EXACTLY the same thing just last year when they hired the "best candidate in a long time".  It's not like New England missed him when he was destroying the Broncos, why's he now suddenly the perfect can't miss coaching candidate?  

Patricia wasn't anything remotely close to the best candidate in a long time...

They are all completely different people. Hell Bill O'Brien has already proved he doesn't belong in the same sentence as the rest of them. It's lazy and flat-out horrible logic to just group all the assistants in a bunch.

JMD is nothing like Crennel who is nothing like O'Brien who is nothing like Weiss who is nothing like Patricia etc etc etc

[{Family Ghost}]

6 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Patricia wasn't anything remotely close to the best candidate in a long time...

They are all completely different people. Hell Bill O'Brien has already proved he doesn't belong in the same sentence as the rest of them. It's lazy and flat-out horrible logic to just group all the assistants in a bunch.

JMD is nothing like Crennel who is nothing like O'Brien who is nothing like Weiss who is nothing like Patricia etc etc etc

Have any of them had any real success as head coach on the pro level away from Belichick and Brady?  I think O'Brien has been okay.  Ferentz, and Saban have been hits on the college level.  The rest haven't done much.  If we get McDaniels I hope he's the exception, but that Belichick coaching tree is suspect. 

https://www.boston.com/sports/extra-points/2015/01/03/bill_belichicks_coaching_tree_has_branches_both_fu

[PackGymRat]

21 minutes ago, SSG said:

Well enough in Denver?  His coaching tenure in Denver was as bad as any coaching tenure in recent NFL history.  He took over an 8 win team and turned them into a 4 win team.  On the way he had the front office, coaching staff and team hating him because of his leadership, attitude and people skills.  That wasn't a team that was that far away before McDaniels and  he turned them into one of the worst teams in the league (they drafted #2 the year after JMcD). Players couldn't get away from him fast enough.  As far as head coaching tenures, Gase was a substantially better coach with a lot less talent.

Why is McDaniels clearly in another league?  He did a horrid job in Denver.  After Denver he was responsible for the NFL's worst offense in St Louis (32nd in yards/ 31st in points).  Without McDaniels New England had an elite Super Bowl offense still.  6th in points/ 3rd in yards, 1st in points/ 8th in yards and 3rd in points/ 2nd in yards.  

Yeah, coaches get fired.  Miami was a lot less certain about the firing of Gase that Denver was about their canning of McDaniels who they canned midseason.  Like I said earlier, I'm not advocating for Gase just pointing out that there is absolutely nothing that makes McDaniels a better prospect.  

They started his first season with 6 straight wins including beating the Pats that year with potential to making the playoffs.

There was locker room issue (Brandon marshall) and too much power in his hands which led to his own demise. He was young.

But I like how when everyone talks about the Phins and their record everyone says “oh well its the Phins what do you expect” then when it comes to making a point about JMD “omg look at his record in Denver”.

But last I checked everyone is interviewing JMD and he was handed the Colts HC job last year.

But I guess everyone in NFL knows nothing and you have the inside scoop.

JMD is the best candidate on the board barring Bruce Arians.

Everyone else is a shot in the dark, just like MM was when he was hired.

Here are some notables for Gase 2018 season:

Notable Losses against: Bills, Lions, Bengals Jags 

Wins against: Titans, Jets, raiders, bears, pats, bills.

Outside of Bears and a miracle game against pats....who did Gase really beat? 

I mean I just don’t understand the Gase equation here....what am I missing?

[chillparsi1]

2 hours ago, incognito_man said:

A "mature" JMD is probably one of the best candidates in a long time IMO.

 

1 hour ago, SSG said:

Based on what?  It's crazy that this exact opinion seems to regurgitated every single year (Matt Patricia just last year).  "Insert New England assistant name" is the best candidate in a long time".  There is absolutely not different between Josh McDaniels and Charlie Weis or Eric Mangini or Matt Patricia or Romeo Cremmel or Bill O'Brien   Just one of many New England assistants that other fan bases get infatuated with based on very little other the need to be like New England. 

 

 

53 minutes ago, PackGymRat said:

Josh McDaniels did well enough in Denver with what he had. Was young and bit naive. 

McDaniels is clearly in another league compared to other assistants before him.

But if you guys rather go to DeFliipo, Gase, or Monken Be my guest. That’s a bigger shot in the dark. Obviously the Phins saw something in Gase that made them question wether he would be the long term solution. They made the same conclusion with Joe Philbin and I don’t think anyone is questioning that decision.

LaFleur is McVay type dark horse, that might sneak through.

 

19 minutes ago, SSG said:

What makes him different?  Obviously you aren't interested in even .1% of his time away from New England. Why is he a better candidate than any of the previous New England assistants?  It's funny because I'm fairly certain Detroit fans thought EXACTLY the same thing just last year when they hired the "best candidate in a long time".  It's not like New England missed him when he was destroying the Broncos, why's he now suddenly the perfect can't miss coaching candidate?  

 

9 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Patricia wasn't anything remotely close to the best candidate in a long time...

They are all completely different people. Hell Bill O'Brien has already proved he doesn't belong in the same sentence as the rest of them. It's lazy and flat-out horrible logic to just group all the assistants in a bunch.

JMD is nothing like Crennel who is nothing like O'Brien who is nothing like Weiss who is nothing like Patricia etc etc etc

I don’t have a horse in this race but honestly nobody is answering the question. The response to “based on what [is he considered one of the best candidates in a while]?” was, “McD is clearly in another league” which basically just restates the initial statement without defending it. 

[PackGymRat]

9 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

Have any of them had any real success as head coach on the pro level away from Belichick and Brady?  I think O'Brien has been okay.  Ferentz, and Saban have been hits on the college level.  The rest haven't done much.  If we get McDaniels I hope he's the exception, but that Belichick coaching tree is suspect. 

https://www.boston.com/sports/extra-points/2015/01/03/bill_belichicks_coaching_tree_has_branches_both_fu

Saban has been a “hit” in College?

Talk about an underestimate, Saban will go down as the best College Coach of the modern era. But I don’t know how much of that is from coming up From BB. 

I will be the first to admit that the B.B. coaching tree has had a mixed track record. But that is not causation to dismiss him and go with even more risky candidates. Small sample size and all.

[SSG]

14 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Patricia wasn't anything remotely close to the best candidate in a long time...

They are all completely different people. Hell Bill O'Brien has already proved he doesn't belong in the same sentence as the rest of them. It's lazy and flat-out horrible logic to just group all the assistants in a bunch.

JMD is nothing like Crennel who is nothing like O'Brien who is nothing like Weiss who is nothing like Patricia etc etc etc

It's lazy too list all the assistants that left New England for head coaching candidates?  Just because you don't like the list doesn't mean it's lazy. It would have been lazy to leave off the only successful coach of the bunch which I did not do.  

Yes different people but same idea.  They were all the next "can't miss" New England assistant.  

JMD isn't any better of a coaching candidate than Patricia.  Both are young New England assistants.  I'd argue that the New England defense misses Patricia substantially more than the New England offense ever missed McDaniels when he was off driving the Bronco's franchise into the ground and running a historically bad offense in St Louis.   In his 3 years away from New England they still had an elite, Super Bowl caliber offense (6th in points/ 3rd in yards, 1st in points/ 8th in yards and 3rd in points/ 2nd in yards).

I don't understand what makes Josh McDaniels an elite coaching candidate.  It's not like he's ever had success away from Bill Belichick.  Weren't you the one that said he was a better candidate than the likes of Kyle Shannahan or Sean Mcvay?  

[incognito_man]

12 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

Have any of them had any real success as head coach on the pro level away from Belichick and Brady?  I think O'Brien has been okay.  Ferentz, and Saban have been hits on the college level.  The rest haven't done much.  If we get McDaniels I hope he's the exception, but that Belichick coaching tree is suspect. 

https://www.boston.com/sports/extra-points/2015/01/03/bill_belichicks_coaching_tree_has_branches_both_fu

Looking at the success of a coaching tree is pretty meaningless to me. I suspect a study of this would show the same. The league is small enough where connections can be made wherever the arguer wants, and ignored elsewhere. Can the tree skip generations? What if someone studied under someone who studied under someone else, but the middle guy sucked?

I immediately dismiss any "coaching tree" arguments because they're inherently lazy. Just like "don't draft Tedford QBs" or "dont draft players from alabama". It unnecessarily and dramatically reduces a ridiculously complex issue.

[incognito_man]

6 minutes ago, SSG said:

It's lazy too list all the assistants that left New England for head coaching candidates?  Just because you don't like the list doesn't mean it's lazy. It would have been lazy to leave off the only successful coach of the bunch which I did not do.  

Yes different people but same idea.  They were all the next "can't miss" New England assistant.  

JMD isn't any better of a coaching candidate than Patricia.  Both are young New England assistants.  I'd argue that the New England defense misses Patricia substantially more than the New England offense ever missed McDaniels when he was off driving the Bronco's franchise into the ground and running a historically bad offense in St Louis.   In his 3 years away from New England they still had an elite, Super Bowl caliber offense (6th in points/ 3rd in yards, 1st in points/ 8th in yards and 3rd in points/ 2nd in yards).

I don't understand what makes Josh McDaniels an elite coaching candidate.  It's not like he's ever had success away from Bill Belichick.  Weren't you the one that said he was a better candidate than the likes of Kyle Shannahan or Sean Mcvay?  

No, I never said those things, and yes it's still lazy to pigeon-hole someone because of their 'tree'.

[PackGymRat]

3 minutes ago, SSG said:

It's lazy too list all the assistants that left New England for head coaching candidates?  Just because you don't like the list doesn't mean it's lazy. It would have been lazy to leave off the only successful coach of the bunch which I did not do.  

Yes different people but same idea.  They were all the next "can't miss" New England assistant.  

JMD isn't any better of a coaching candidate than Patricia.  Both are young New England assistants.  I'd argue that the New England defense misses Patricia substantially more than the New England offense ever missed McDaniels when he was off driving the Bronco's franchise into the ground and running a historically bad offense in St Louis.   In his 3 years away from New England they still had an elite, Super Bowl caliber offense (6th in points/ 3rd in yards, 1st in points/ 8th in yards and 3rd in points/ 2nd in yards).

I don't understand what makes Josh McDaniels an elite coaching candidate.  It's not like he's ever had success away from Bill Belichick.  Weren't you the one that said he was a better candidate than the likes of Kyle Shannahan or Sean Mcvay?  

Did you even look up WHO the OC was in the time JMD was gone? Oh yeah they didn’t have one in 2 of the 3 years! BB was making the playcalls!

So your point is rather mute. 

[PackGymRat]

Only 7 assistants have left:

Saban

Corrnell

O’Brien

JMD

Patricia

Mangini

Weiss

 

Let’s not act like the list is so long to name. It’s 7.

[beekay414]

16 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Looking at the success of a coaching tree is pretty meaningless to me. I suspect a study of this would show the same. The league is small enough where connections can be made wherever the arguer wants, and ignored elsewhere. Can the tree skip generations? What if someone studied under someone who studied under someone else, but the middle guy sucked?

I immediately dismiss any "coaching tree" arguments because they're inherently lazy. Just like "don't draft Tedford QBs" or "dont draft players from alabama". It unnecessarily and dramatically reduces a ridiculously complex issue.

Yep. Look at the Bill Walsh coaching "tree." A lot of those guys had nothing to do with Bill Walsh.