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This team needs a 2nd round WR/TE/RB or equivalent FA

skibrett15

By skibrett15
in Green Bay Packers

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Pugger

Pugger

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

No one is saying that he is. 

The question being asked is, how much should Rodgers be expected to compensate for non-elite play at other positions. 

Some are saying he is mostly to blame and there are some - perhaps not here - that practically blame him for getting MM fired/playing crappy on purpose to get MM canned.

Most elite QBs elevate those around him and until this season Rodgers has with less than Pro Bowl receivers.  I will say besides Adams most of the receivers he has worked with were either very young or new (Graham).  It didn't help to have Cobb miss a boat load of games this year and Geronimo on IR. 

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Pugger

Pugger

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55 minutes ago, VonKarman said:

I wouldn't be happy if we drafted a WR or a TE in the first two rounds. There's lots of talent in premium positions this year and we should take advantage of that. Our 2 firsts and our second should be spent in DT, DE, OT or OLB, going for the best player available of any of those positions. Anything other than that (unless there's great DB talent available) would be a mistake. Then, from the 3rd onwards I don't mind investing on a TE, but no way I'd draft a WR in the 2nd round.

What if the BPA in round 2 was a WR or TE?  Do you bypass him and draft for need?

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VonKarman

VonKarman

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Just now, Pugger said:

What if the BPA in round 2 was a WR or TE?  Do you bypass him and draft for need?

Unless there is a huge gap in talent, without a doubt. You have to take into account the impact of the position. Otherwise, you'll end up drafting Janikowski in the first round.

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Cheesehawk

Cheesehawk

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12 hours ago, Nick_gb said:

I honestly would not be mad if the Packers took Noah Fant with the 2nd 1st round pick. I know it's not ideal and a lot of that depends on how the Free Agency period plays out but Fant is a stud.

Fant did not impress me at all this year, fwiw. And thats coming from someone who was pimping the hell out of him last season. He's still gonna be a good NFL TE but he ran some lazy *** routes this year while getting outshined by his sophomore counterpart.

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MacReady

MacReady

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Posted

More evidence people are underrating tight ends and have no idea how to look at things with perspective:

Since 2000. 

Let's just say 31 teams since the Texans weren't a team since then. 

18 seasons.
31 teams (31 starting tight ends)

558 starting tight end seasons.

Jimmy Graham's 549 receiving yards ranks 227th. 

Tight ends don't have a whole lot of receiving yards. 

He's having a good season in spite of Aaron's lack of a real connection with him, so I don't get the dislike. 

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cannondale

cannondale

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45 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

More evidence people are underrating tight ends and have no idea how to look at things with perspective:

Since 2000. 

Let's just say 31 teams since the Texans weren't a team since then. 

18 seasons.
31 teams (31 starting tight ends)

558 starting tight end seasons.

Jimmy Graham's 549 receiving yards ranks 227th. 

Tight ends don't have a whole lot of receiving yards. 

He's having a good season in spite of Aaron's lack of a real connection with him, so I don't get the dislike. 

It's not that difficult for me. Every time he makes a catch it's like, oh yea, he's on the team. I don't want to use the phrase garbage yards, but he just hasn't had the impact that was expected. I asked these questions in another thread and instead of answering them, you insisted I needed an eye test. We acquired him because we assumed the answer to the following questions would be yes. And since he is the highest paid tight end, we should expect nothing less. If you need a cheat sheet, the answers are: No, no, no, no, and Rodgers, Adams, Jones.

Has he stretched the field ?

Has he been a red zone threat ?

Has his presence made it easier for others to get open ?

Has he shown up in crucial situations as a go to guy ?

When you think of the Packers offense this year - who are the top 3 guys ?

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Kepler

Kepler

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37 minutes ago, cannondale said:

And since he is the highest paid tight end, we should expect nothing less.

I'm curious how you would answer if we switched the word tight end for QB, and were talking about Rodgers. Would your sentiment be the same?

Just curious because I've seen people make this argument about other players, while strangely exempting AR from the same criticism.

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AlexGreen#20

AlexGreen#20

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Posted
1 hour ago, cannondale said:

It's not that difficult for me. Every time he makes a catch it's like, oh yea, he's on the team. I don't want to use the phrase garbage yards, but he just hasn't had the impact that was expected. I asked these questions in another thread and instead of answering them, you insisted I needed an eye test. We acquired him because we assumed the answer to the following questions would be yes. And since he is the highest paid tight end, we should expect nothing less. If you need a cheat sheet, the answers are: No, no, no, no, and Rodgers, Adams, Jones.

Has he stretched the field ?

Has he been a red zone threat ?

Has his presence made it easier for others to get open ?

Has he shown up in crucial situations as a go to guy ?

When you think of the Packers offense this year - who are the top 3 guys ?

Up until last week we've had a QB allergic to throwing any ball that a defender might even get a finger on. 

If you're a tight end whose main value is running up the seam against Cover-2 that's going to hurt your numbers.

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AlexGreen#20

AlexGreen#20

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Posted
1 minute ago, Gopackgonerd said:

Good video on the struggles of Graham. I think he'll be fine if he just catches the ball. Lotta drops in some key plays.

Play #1 Drew a holding penalty.

Play #2 Was open for a long *** time and then was underthrown. Maybe should have had it, but Rodgers needs to keep his eyes downfield too.

Play #3 Should have had it, but that's a tough catch and the man has a broken thumb.

Play #4 Is the same play as #1

Play #5 was not open. Should not have been targeted. But the linebacker that he pulled towards him opened up a window for MVS. That's an easy read if we're playing within the offense.

Play #6 Should have caught it, wasn't an easy catch.

Play #7 Awful throw

Play #8 Awful throw

Play #9 Don't let the second level defender tip the ball if you don't want to get picked off. Linebacker deflected it.

Play #10 should have caught it. 

 

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cannondale

cannondale

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Up until last week we've had a QB allergic to throwing any ball that a defender might even get a finger on. 

If you're a tight end whose main value is running up the seam against Cover-2 that's going to hurt your numbers.

Lets assume you're right. Is it too much to ask that he gets open enough where that isn't a concern ? Shouldn't the highest paid tight end get separation ?

I have no answer to the conspiracy theories. Rodgers says he throws to who's open. I find it pretty hard to believe he's just ignoring an offensive weapon

Edited by cannondale
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AlexGreen#20

AlexGreen#20

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Posted
16 minutes ago, cannondale said:

Lets assume you're right. Is it too much to ask that he gets open enough where that isn't a concern ? Shouldn't the highest paid tight end get separation ?

I have no answer to the conspiracy theories. Rodgers says he throws to who's open.

I'm sure Rodgers believes he throws to who's open. Video has determined that isn't necessarily the case. 

Check out that Cardinals thread I posted. 100 damn yards left on the field of Graham running open.

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cannondale

cannondale

Posted
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I'm sure Rodgers believes he throws to who's open. Video has determined that isn't necessarily the case. 

Check out that Cardinals thread I posted. 100 damn yards left on the field of Graham running open.

I saw the thread and appreciate the work you put in. Whether I'm right in doing so or not, I take screen shots or videos with a grain of salt to a degree. Unless we know what the progressions are, it's hard to point a finger definitively. If Graham or anyone else runs free before or after Rodgers' read, does it matter ? Is Rodgers clock sped up and he's missing or skipping progressions ? Is Graham seeing what Rodgers is seeing ? We don't know. We are talking fractions of a second for these progressions and reads. At the end of the day, for whatever the reason, Graham hasn't had the impact that we have been waiting for all these years. If Crosby misses a kick, does it matter if the hold or snap aren't perfect ? If MM goes 4-7-1 does it matter if Rodgers under performs or if the drafts have stunk?  Whether a new system or another training camp makes a difference remains to be seen. 

Edited by cannondale
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