This team needs a 2nd round WR/TE/RB or equivalent FA

[Howler]

4 minutes ago, Slinky said:

And we don't know how many missed throws are on him and how many are on the young WRs (route running).

That's the problem. We're not seeing the entire play materialize. There could be subtle deviations in route running that could be throwing Rodgers off. 

[Mr. Fussnputz]

2 minutes ago, Howler said:

That's the problem. We're not seeing the entire play materialize. There could be subtle deviations in route running that could be throwing Rodgers off. 

I don't know, Rodgers finished with a passer rating of around 60. Rodgers was blaming "details," "not being on the same page," and even the wind in Chicago. Imagine that! Wind in Chicago! On the other hand, Trubisky was playing with new receivers too, Robinson, Miller, and I think Gabriel. He was also playing in the same wind. I think he finished with a passer rating of over 100. Something is wrong with Rodgers, and it ain't the new receivers, or the wind. I think it's his arm. Either it's a physical problem going back to his broken collarbone, or it's a mental problem dealing with that injury (lack of confidence in his arm?). Either way, the Packer front office had better accept that this is the "new" Rodgers and build a team around him to match his new abilities. He is still the smartest QB in the game, but he no longer has the super arm. Build on his strength. He's still way good enough to win another super bowl, just not with the same kind of offense/team. A smash-mouth running game and defense with a short passing game offense would be the direction I would go. 

[JBURGE]

42 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

1 hour ago, JBURGE said:

I don't know what our system will be next year. If it was Mac's, I would vehemently disagree. It needs playmakers at WR and we can't just count on the rookies being much better next year. Projections are not reality.

Our offense has been humming when we use the run and quick passing game, we even saw it yesterday. If that's what we use going forward, then what we have at WR is enough. 

It won't be Mac's system ... he's gone as well as most if not all his staff.  That's where bringing in a Golden Tate type player or two will help this team regardless what system is used.

I'm not sure what I was trying to say there. I know it won't be mac's system.. I just meant that the system may require more skill at the wr spot. I like Tate

[{Family Ghost}]

1 minute ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

I don't know, Rodgers finished with a passer rating of around 60. Rodgers was blaming "details," "not being on the same page," and even the wind in Chicago. Imagine that! Wind in Chicago! On the other hand, Trubisky was playing with new receivers too, Robinson, Miller, and I think Gabriel. He was also playing in the same wind. I think he finished with a passer rating of over 100. Something is wrong with Rodgers, and it ain't the new receivers, or the wind. I think it's his arm. Either it's a physical problem going back to his broken collarbone, or it's a mental problem dealing with that injury (lack of confidence in his arm?). Either way, the Packer front office had better accept that this is the "new" Rodgers and build a team around him to match his new abilities. He is still the smartest QB in the game, but he no longer has the super arm. Build on his strength. He's still way good enough to win another super bowl, just not with the same kind of offense/team. A smash-mouth running game and defense with a short passing game offense would be the direction I would go. 

I agree .. the excuses are wearing thin ... that's part of why I'd sit him down and roll with Kizer for the final two.  Rodgers isn't helping anyone progress .. other than Adams, who has a great feel with Rodgers.  I'm sure Rodgers is banged up, but the same issues keep popping up week after week, and there is no reason to think it's going to improve with just two games to go.  I'm pretty sure Kizer could come in and involve the young receivers more than Aaron.

[Mr. Fussnputz]

4 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

I agree .. the excuses are wearing thin ... that's part of why I'd sit him down and roll with Kizer for the final two.  Rodgers isn't helping anyone progress .. other than Adams, who has a great feel with Rodgers.  I'm sure Rodgers is banged up, but the same issues keep popping up week after week, and there is no reason to think it's going to improve with just two games to go.  I'm pretty sure Kizer could come in and involve the young receivers more than Aaron.

Short term, I could go either way. But long term (2019 and beyond) the Packer brass had better be planning on building a team that maximizes Aaron's strengths and minimizes his weaknesses, or 2019 is going to look a lot like 2018.

[SSG]

4 hours ago, coachbuns said:

We have enough young receivers on the roster to compete next year  .... sign a mid level free agent or two on reasonable contracts to fill out this team.  Rodgers getting his act together/getting healthy will take care of itself.  We have a lot bigger fish to fry draft wise than WR. 

 

This team has issues all over. I don't care whether it's the draft or UFA, there needs to be an influx of young talent at WR and/ or TE.  For the most part, the offense has been all but ignored in the last 4 years in the draft when it comes to premiere picks.  We've drafted just 2 offensive players with a top 3 pick since 2014 (we drafted Adams and Rodgers with 2 of our top 4 picks) compared to 10 defensive players.  Moving Mongomery to RB and not drafting a suitable replacement has caught up to us.  

Since Thompson arrived, this 3 year gap is the longest gap we've ever went without spending a premium draft pick on an offensive skill position player.  This offense was a power house in large part because of the massive investment he made into WR position when he first got hired (4 years straight with a WR selected in the 2nd (3 picks) and 3rd (1)).

While assuming these rookies are going to develop into starters next year we're assuming something that hasn't occurred in Green Bay in well over 20 years.  The list of late round rookies WRs is extremely long and not one of them ever developed as quickly as some are assuming these 3 will.  reality is, the difference between Moore/ MVS/ ESB and Jeff Janis/ Malachi Dupre is minimal at best.  

[CWood21]

4 hours ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

And maybe you've hit the nail on the head. Post-broken collar bone Aaron does not appear to be the same as pre-broken collar bone Aaron. If that trend continues, and with increasing age, I don't see how it won't, we need to get Aaron as much support as possible, because WE ARE COMMITTED TO HIM FOR A LONG TIME and HE USES A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF CAP SPACE!  Maybe we start by beefing up the O-line and bringing in a monster running back. And then back that up by building an iron wall defense. Investing in WRs with a gimpy-armed QB is a waste of resources. I hope I am wrong about Aaron's throwing arm, but so much time has passed since the injury that, if indeed it is his arm, more time is unlikely to cure the problem.

But at the risk of affecting our defense?  I'm all for improving our weapons for Aaron Rodgers, but I'm not doing it at the expense of our defense.

[JBURGE]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

But at the risk of affecting our defense?  I'm all for improving our weapons for Aaron Rodgers, but I'm not doing it at the expense of our defense.

We all know you're cheap. We need to have a Saints 2017-esque draft to be competitive next year, or we need to sign a couple FAs that actually don't bust. 

[mikemike778]

4 hours ago, coachbuns said:

We have enough young receivers on the roster to compete next year  .... sign a mid level free agent or two on reasonable contracts to fill out this team.  Rodgers getting his act together/getting healthy will take care of itself.  We have a lot bigger fish to fry draft wise than WR. 

And this sums up a lot of the problems ..

• 1. Rodgers getting healthy
• 2. Will take care of itself

1. Rodgers broke his collar-bone last year. This year he knackered his knee - towards the end of the game he tweaked something else. Before he knackered his collar bone the second time, he was constantly getting up gimpy. Health wise, he's probably never going to be 100%, its a young man's game and by NFL standards, he is an old man. From here on in, he will be picking up niggles constantly and probably every year we'll be thinking 'he needs an off-season to get healthy'.

2. Rodgers will be a HOF QB and to a lot of fans this has bred complacency that he will sort out the offense by himself. However for most of his career he has significantly better receivers than he does now and a more reliable offensive line. With the exception of RB, every area of the offense (including QB) is significantly weaker than it was when he was setting records. It would be extremely naïve to see this and not expect a heavy regression of the offense.

So we have a choice really. The offense is in danger of seriously falling off a cliff. If we want a high powered offense then we need to invest serious picks into the offense. Not just this year but every year. Or we adapt. Continue to prioritise getting young talent on defence but if we do this the defence needs to be the team's bread winner. A top 5 unit that  has the responsibility of winning games with Rodgers moving to a game manager role doing what needs to be done.

Personally, my take on it that we have invested so much money in Aaron that we should be investing in offense. He isn't truly elite anymore but I'm confident he can still be a Top 5 QB if we treat the offense properly. I can live with the alternative of going defence providing we can build an elite defence but after drafting defence every year, I'm not seeing much signs of that. 

[CWood21]

4 hours ago, Blink said:

My solution would be to invest more significant draft capital to make things easier on Aaron.  I don’t honestly care if he’s as good as we think he is or not, I just want a functional offense again.

At the expense of another, more important position?  We've seen Rodgers produce with average WRs (Jarrett Boykin, Jake Kumerow, etc.), but now he needs elite weapons?  Look, I'm all for getting more weapons for Rodgers, but I'm not giving up a more valuable position (EDGE, CB, OL, etc.) than another WR when we have some good, young WRs.

4 hours ago, Blink said:

Notice how the majority of WRs you listed were selected in the third or above, we have spent only one third at the position since we got Adams.  That’s ignoring the position and it’s showing on the field.

And go compare that to say EDGE or CB.  You have to draft certain positions early or don't bother drafting them late.  The point I was trying to make is that you can find quality WRs throughout the draft.  Of the 20 guys I mentioned, half of them were drafted in the 3rd round or later.  And don't forget, the position is only as good as the player throwing him the ball.

4 hours ago, Blink said:

MVS has had a few good games but at this point if he’s your #2 then that’s probably one of the worst WR groups in the game. Allison isn’t going to play the entire year due to injuries, that’s almost a certainty.  Moore has literally one catch to his name, and ESB has only 16.  Again I think expecting them to transform into a good unit in offseason is incredibly unlikely.

Very much disagree about this.  This is the first season that Geronimo Allison got significant burn, so calling him unlikely to play an entire season because of injury is completely unfounded.  MVS has done great things as a rookie, and he's arguably been top 5 in terms of rookie WR production.  And that's after having a slow start and hitting the rookie wall.

4 hours ago, Blink said:

I just don’t understand this thought process of literally never spending a premium pick at WR.  Given how the game is played today it seems absolutely crazy not to want top receiving weapons given how the game is so slanted in their favor.

 

btw you hope they will make a second year jump, this isn’t madden and players aren’t on a linear progression.  For all we know they could both regress or stay the same, all I’m saying is if we keep ignoring the most valuable skill position on offense we will continue to see sub par results.

It's not never,  just not right now.  I don't need another elite WR for Rodgers, I just need a really good one (think Golden Tate-level).  I'd love to have another elite WR, but at the end of the day I think we can have an effective offense with or without an elite WR.  And you're right, it's based heavily on 2nd year jump.  But we're also talking about a year in a full offseason program that usually sees WRs make that Year 2 jump.

[Leader]

8 minutes ago, SSG said:

Reality is, the difference between Moore/ MVS/ ESB and Jeff Janis/ Malachi Dupre is minimal at best.  

Oh dont say that!
Truth is the arc of both EQ & MVS has seemed to have flat lined over the last month. Not sure why that is - but wasnt the development I was hoping for earlier in the year. 

[CWood21]

7 minutes ago, JBURGE said:

We all know you're cheap. We need to have a Saints 2017-esque draft to be competitive next year, or we need to sign a couple FAs that actually don't bust. 

I disagree.  We're a competent HC/QB combination next year from being right back in the mix.  We've got a few issues (EDGE, S, OL) that needs to be addressed, but I think wek can be right in the playoff mix.  With the exception of the Redskins' game, we're losing by an average of 6.3 points.  Even in the Patriots game, the Patriots got a late touchdown to push the lead to 14 points.  If you subscribe to the close wins/loss theory, we're sitting -3 in close wins/losses, so we're probably not really as bad as our record indicates.

[Arthur Penske]

14 minutes ago, Leader said:

Oh dont say that!
Truth is the arc of both EQ & MVS has seemed to have flat lined over the last month. Not sure why that is - but wasnt the development I was hoping for earlier in the year. 

Rookie Wall.

[Leader]

13 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Rookie Wall.

Could be. Lets hope so.

[chillparsi1]

I still would much rather get a combo guard/tackle at the 2nd than going with the skill positions. Look at the Saints, Cowboys, Steelers - they've all invested heavily in their OL that's facilitating their run game. Yesterday we started 5 OL, only one of whom was an early pick (Spriggs). Some extra time might also help reset Rodgers too and/or give him time to develop the chemistry with the younger guys. I don't want a 1st round guard, that's not a good use of value, but there's a lot of good OL talent to be found in the 2nd. I'm thinking guys like Mitchell Schwartz and Joel Bitonio