Jerry Rice vs Don Hutson?

[bzane]

14 minutes ago, Norm said:

I'm in a bad mood for some reason lol

I didn't reply to it last time but the crazy violence of the old football stuff is overrated too. I've seen Lane play a few times now and he never clotheslined anyone, stuff like that. There's so many things like that, just don't seem true but it's just been repeated for decades. Nitschke is one as a GB fan. No way in ******* hell he was more dominant than Sam Huff, he was probably the 3rd or 4th best player on the D a lot of years but he was white and not black and his appearance obviously blew him up for those who never saw him play.

It's all right, @Norm, you're a good guy, and we all know it. Thought you'd want to join this party, for ol' times' sake. 

Here's a photo from the book, Who Was That Unmasked Man? , a compendium of NFL stars from the pre-facemask days. It shows Don "The Raccoon" Hutson, one of the first to use lamp-black, and subject of this thread! (Caveat: I maaay have got the nickname wrong, and will defer to the better judgement of Brutal on this, as he has a matchless knowledge of monikers, handles, and sobriquets from NFL players past).

[Shanedorf]

2 hours ago, Norm said:

I'm in a bad mood for some reason lol

 but the crazy violence of the old football stuff is overrated too.

Bad mood = Packers Grinched out of playoffs before Christmas ? 

Violence ? Depends how far back you go
Teddy Roosevelt had to step in after too many players died...
I'm not even sure if that was a penalty back in the day.

The old time sportswriters were masterful storytellers and that was big part of their craft. So it isn't a huge surprise that some of the myths & legends were slightly exaggerated - they too had newspapers to sell. I also don't think modern hyperbole is all that different than old time hyperbole when it comes to covering the sport of football. Read this board and there are at least 500 current NFL players who are for sure Top 5 All Time.

[El Ramster]

34 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Bad mood = Packers Grinched out of playoffs before Christmas ? 

Violence ? Depends how far back you go
Teddy Roosevelt had to step in after too many players died...
I'm not even sure if that was a penalty back in the day.

The old time sportswriters were masterful storytellers and that was big part of their craft. So it isn't a huge surprise that some of the myths & legends were slightly exaggerated - they too had newspapers to sell. I also don't think modern hyperbole is all that different than old time hyperbole when it comes to covering the sport of football. Read this board and there are at least 500 current NFL players who are for sure Top 5 All Time.

If you don’t think athletes this day aren’t far superior than the old farts before. Then you are insane. Faster and stronger hands down. 

[Shanedorf]

1 hour ago, El ramster said:

If you don’t think athletes this day aren’t far superior than the old farts before. Then you are insane. Faster and stronger hands down. 

I might be insane, but I'd probably be the last one to know, ya know ?
Grant us 14 minutes of your precious time and watch this video, it offers some excellent insight into that specific topic

 

https://www.ted.com/talks/david_epstein_are_athletes_really_getting_faster_better_stronger?language=en

[Calvert28]

On 12/20/2018 at 8:42 AM, El ramster said:

Hudson wouldn't even be a top 200 WR in todays game. 

What does this have to do with what he's talking about?

[ZenoRazon]

3 hours ago, El ramster said:

If you don’t think athletes this day aren’t far superior than the old farts before. Then you are insane. Faster and stronger hands down. 

Like everything else we do have exceptions.

Bulllet Bob Hayes was a 10.06 sprinter back in the days of dirt tracks, he would STILL be the fastest man in the NFL today, yep, faster than Hill.

Gale Sayers could play today as could Jim Brown. Slingin' Sammy could punt right now. Lawrence Taylor could play today as could Ollie Matson, O.J.Simpson. Bo Jackson. There are a few others.

Don Hutson could play today, yes, not dominate but would make any NFL roster.

[Pugger]

9 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

I might be insane, but I'd probably be the last one to know, ya know ?
Grant us 14 minutes of your precious time and watch this video, it offers some excellent insight into that specific topic

 

https://www.ted.com/talks/david_epstein_are_athletes_really_getting_faster_better_stronger?language=en

Thanks for sharing this video.  It was very enlightening.   So perhaps if Don Hutson was in his prime today he would indeed be playing in the NFL.  He most like would not accumulate all those records he did back in his day but he'd be productive.

[Mr Bad Example]

16 hours ago, Norm said:

I'm in a bad mood for some reason lol

I didn't reply to it last time but the crazy violence of the old football stuff is overrated too. I've seen Lane play a few times now and he never clotheslined anyone, stuff like that. There's so many things like that, just don't seem true but it's just been repeated for decades. Nitschke is one as a GB fan. No way in ******* hell he was more dominant than Sam Huff, he was probably the 3rd or 4th best player on the D a lot of years but he was white and not black and his appearance obviously blew him up for those who never saw him play.

 

I've always gotten the impression that Nitschke was the leader of the GB defense, but Dave Robinson was the best LB on the team....to say nothing about the impact that Willie Davis and Herb Adderly had on talent-wise. 

[Mr Bad Example]

13 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

The old time sportswriters were masterful storytellers and that was big part of their craft. So it isn't a huge surprise that some of the myths & legends were slightly exaggerated - they too had newspapers to sell. 

I once saw someone take down the famous "4 Horsemen" article by Grantland Rice - "outlined against a blue-gray October sky...." "Outlined against the sky? Where was he watching the game from, a hole in the ground?" 

[Norm]

14 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

Bad mood = Packers Grinched out of playoffs before Christmas ? 

Violence ? Depends how far back you go
Teddy Roosevelt had to step in after too many players died...
I'm not even sure if that was a penalty back in the day.

The old time sportswriters were masterful storytellers and that was big part of their craft. So it isn't a huge surprise that some of the myths & legends were slightly exaggerated - they too had newspapers to sell. I also don't think modern hyperbole is all that different than old time hyperbole when it comes to covering the sport of football. Read this board and there are at least 500 current NFL players who are for sure Top 5 All Time.

That's fair. The biggest thing for me that I found watching that stuff is what happens late. Guys still hitting, pushing,re-tackling after the plays are over but it wasn't like WOW LOOK AT THAT VIOLENT HIT AFTER THE PLAY, it's just like oh, that was a really really really late push. I remember Sam Huff getting pulled off Taylor after he basically tackled him twice. Huff just like suplexes the ref off him and him and Jim push and jaw and that was just normal. 9 flags would fly these days, it was more than. I have to believe as far as those deaths go a ton of that had to do with the protection at the time as much as anything. What I'm getting at is the clothlining or head slapping or whatever stuff, stupidly overrated and over sold.

[Norm]

54 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said:

 

I've always gotten the impression that Nitschke was the leader of the GB defense, but Dave Robinson was the best LB on the team....to say nothing about the impact that Willie Davis and Herb Adderly had on talent-wise. 

Very very accurate. I haven't seen a trillion games but Davis always looked like the most dominant player to me. Then Wood and Herb seemed to be making the turnovers, DR seemed to always be around the ball. Ray was just kind of there. Ray is ALWAYS above those guys on top lists and often the second best linebacker of all time from pre 2000s top lists and he's really really really not. Imo obviously. It ticks people off when I say it but it's just truly what I see. It's not even hard to see honestly.

[Mr Bad Example]

11 hours ago, Norm said:

Very very accurate. I haven't seen a trillion games but Davis always looked like the most dominant player to me. Then Wood and Herb seemed to be making the turnovers, DR seemed to always be around the ball. Ray was just kind of there. Ray is ALWAYS above those guys on top lists and often the second best linebacker of all time from pre 2000s top lists and he's really really really not. Imo obviously. It ticks people off when I say it but it's just truly what I see. It's not even hard to see honestly.

 

Well, there's also the factor that overrated =/= "bad"; Nitschke was a damn good player with about as much heart as anyone could expect. He was just in a position where he was the 4th or 5th best player in the defensive huddle on most given days....and it probably didn't hurt the cause that if you were doing a casting call for "badass MLB" you'd definitely look at a pic and say "we want THAT guy!" 

 

I suppose he was the defensive equivalent of Hornung, who I'd have rated behind Kramer, Taylor, Gregg, Starr, and for sure Ringo/maybe on Bowman in the offensive huddle.  

[Kiwibrown]

Hutson was by far one of the best athletes in the NFL. If he was given better nutrition and better training in all likely hood he would be a good to great NFL player today. 

All the dominant players of their time would be somwehre between good to awesome in todays NFL. 

[Norm]

21 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said:

if you were doing a casting call for "badass MLB" you'd definitely look at a pic and say "we want THAT guy!" 

I think this is a ton of it. Hornung thing seems fair. I getcha. The difference being I guess, what I was getting at before, is for a very long time he was often considered a top 10 all time NFL player, not so much post 90s-ish though I don't think, but that's kind of where my rant goes. He never should have been considered that just because he was the "face" of that defense.

I've discussed this a lot and I probably focus TOO much on RN being overrated and less what my real thing is, those other guys are not talked about enough. Willie Davis being the biggest travesty.

[NFLExpert49]

Do people still not realize that Don Hutson's peers were a joke; that he played in a league that didn't allow most of the best receivers in the world to play?