xrade Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/14/2019 at 1:52 PM, KingOfTheDot said: I think I’m now seeing where guys say we overrate our own players. Clowney is so much than Jenkins it’s honestly not even close. You're simply basing it off of sacks when there’s so much more to being an ELITE EDGE. Yes we overate our own most likely due to hope and lack of elite talent rather than production. Clowney is better than Jenkins, that has never been an argument. And yes, there is more to being an elite edge than just sack numbers, which quite frankly, I always thought of as a bit overated. Here is where you and I differ. 1. This is not an issue about Jenkins, I only mentioned him as a comparison that sacks are something the rest of the FB universe seems to weigh as overly important. Jenkins 7 in 2018, Clowney 9 in 2018. Just a comparison. 2. My issue is with the salary Clowney will want. He will make $16 million in 2019 and feels he deserves more over a long term contract. Here are some numbers: $/sack =$550,600, $/total tackle = $78,000, $/TFL = $249,500. Jenkins by comparison is less than half the dollar value. 3. Clowney may have peaked. His tackles, sacks, QB hits, TFL have remained pretty steady over the last 3 years. Jenkins took a jump from 3-7 sacks and 9-15 QB hits. I expect Jenkins to continue to improve under GW. 4. TJ Watt - enough said. In the end, I would love to have Clowney on this team at a reasonable contract that is more in line with his actual on field production than some hype that he has yet to live up to. If he wants $16 million+ per year, let some other team make that mistake. I would rather have Jenkins and his $3 million salary. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 In the NFL you need solid value players in order to win like Jenkins. We'd all love to have Clowney but you just have to make sure it's not at the expense of losing other valuable players in the future in order to add him. There is a give and take. Can't just sign everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJC33 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 For those interested, the Jets are continuing their One Jets Drive series beginning tonight. I really enjoyed the episodes last year and I think just about everyone is dying for some football content this time of year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfNewYork Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I’d take Clowney at 16M over Jenkins at 3M every day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 18 hours ago, KingOfTheDot said: I’d take Clowney at 16M over Jenkins at 3M every day of the week. If you had to let Leo walk because of it would you still do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfNewYork Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 7 hours ago, Rockice_8 said: If you had to let Leo walk because of it would you still do it? Yes. Especially with QWill on the team going forward and some depth on the interior DL in Anderson, McLendon and Shep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 15 hours ago, KingOfTheDot said: Yes. Especially with QWill on the team going forward and some depth on the interior DL in Anderson, McLendon and Shep. McClendon is on his last legs and Shep hasn't really proven much yet so the DL becomes thin again losing a guy like Leo. I wonder if Leo puts up 8-9 sacks this season and continues to be elite in the run game if you feel the same. I mean we know he can pressure the QB and we know he is an elite run stopper. Would bumping that sack total closer to what Clowney got matter? I feel like it would/should considering pressure up the middle is worse on a QB then an edge rush and being able to step up into a throw. I really expect a big season out of our DL especially Leo and Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich51 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Rockice_8 said: McClendon is on his last legs and Shep hasn't really proven much yet so the DL becomes thin again losing a guy like Leo. I wonder if Leo puts up 8-9 sacks this season and continues to be elite in the run game if you feel the same. I mean we know he can pressure the QB and we know he is an elite run stopper. Would bumping that sack total closer to what Clowney got matter? I feel like it would/should considering pressure up the middle is worse on a QB then an edge rush and being able to step up into a throw. I really expect a big season out of our DL especially Leo and Q. Up the middle pressure is the way to beat Brady but for the more mobile QBs that’s where we need for the Jenkins and Colemans to step up. It’s a totally different defense than having pass rushers on the edge but can be just as damaging. A guy like Clowney would probably thrive is that sort of system. I hope our guys can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I think we want to see what we have in Jenkins and Polite before we make a huge move for a guy like Clowney. Our DL and ILB crew should really scare teams opening up a lot of 1 on 1s for our edge guys. So the pass rush should be significantly better this year IMO. Assuming Mosley and Q have the impacts they should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 4 hours ago, Rich51 said: Up the middle pressure is the way to beat Brady but for the more mobile QBs that’s where we need for the Jenkins and Colemans to step up. It’s a totally different defense than having pass rushers on the edge but can be just as damaging. A guy like Clowney would probably thrive is that sort of system. I hope our guys can The edges would just need to contain the mobile QB's more so then get pressure assuming you are getting interior pressure. Jenkins and Polite when the QB tries to spin out need to not let them get around the edge to the flat where they can do damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfNewYork Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Rockice_8 said: McClendon is on his last legs and Shep hasn't really proven much yet so the DL becomes thin again losing a guy like Leo. I wonder if Leo puts up 8-9 sacks this season and continues to be elite in the run game if you feel the same. I mean we know he can pressure the QB and we know he is an elite run stopper. Would bumping that sack total closer to what Clowney got matter? I feel like it would/should considering pressure up the middle is worse on a QB then an edge rush and being able to step up into a throw. I really expect a big season out of our DL especially Leo and Q. I’m not overly concerned about the sack total as much as I am about creating a dirty pocket and making QBs uncomfortable. I’m sick of QBs sitting back picking us apart. If we can force QBs to move or to throw earlier than they want then we can make more things happen on defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekill08x Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 On 7/17/2019 at 5:43 PM, KingOfTheDot said: Yes. Especially with QWill on the team going forward and some depth on the interior DL in Anderson, McLendon and Shep. Yeah at this point we are MASSIVELY overrating Clowney. 16 million for a guy who has never had a double digit sack year and who doesnt play the run well with also losing one of our core guys...hard pass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfNewYork Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 3 hours ago, ekill08x said: Yeah at this point we are MASSIVELY overrating Clowney. 16 million for a guy who has never had a double digit sack year and who doesnt play the run well with also losing one of our core guys...hard pass. So your opinion would change if he had 10 sacks in 2017 and 2018 instead of 9.5 and 9? Also he was stout against the run last year, dude was a stud all around but double digit sacks seem to be the criteria for paying elite talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich51 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 4 hours ago, KingOfTheDot said: So your opinion would change if he had 10 sacks in 2017 and 2018 instead of 9.5 and 9? Also he was stout against the run last year, dude was a stud all around but double digit sacks seem to be the criteria for paying elite talent. Just for comparison PFf had Clowney tied for 9th with Lawerence with a grade of 88.0. Coleman was 51st with a 67.4, Luvu 80th with a 60.2 and Jenkins 98th with a 52.4. Personally I think Jenkins was better than that grade but by whatever measurements they use, he wasn’t very good. Hopefully his off season training with the same guy that trains Miller and Donald will help but he has a long way to go to be as good as Clowney. Just loooking over the Houston forum i get the impression that Clowney is great when he’s on but is inconsistent. Clowney is not a twitchy Edge Rusher but uses power to get to the QB and shut down the run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickyt31 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Now, I'm not saying Jenkins is better than Clowney right now. I'm saying is Jenkins is younger and getting better. If he continues to improve under GW system, he could hit Clowney's numbers by next year. He was a 3rd round pick, development was expected. But signing him to a $16M+ deal could risk losing some good players over the next couple of years, losing a good draft pick (Some of you all complained about trading 2nd round picks for Darnold), and picking up a guy who may only look as good as he does because teams have to double Watt. Moving money around won't be easy because our biggest deals just happened in the past two seasons. The only people that make sense to cut is Roberts and maybe Winters if he doesn't perform. But we'll still need someone to replace him. Beachum will be gone, so we'll need someone to replace him. Also have to look in shell's situation if he can't stay healthy. We'll have about $35M-ish cap space. If $16M goes to Clowney and lose a draft pick in the trade. Leo will be gone even if he performs well. Then we might have 3 holes on the oline to fill and less draft picks to work with. lol I need to see some mocks to make this all work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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