Conference Championship Games

[Leader]

51 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I like @incognito_man idea. I would add to it that the booth ref is the only one allowed to challenge a penalty. Coaching challenges will stay the same. 

They should buzz in just like college officials do. Their training would be important as we don't want to wreck game flow. I'd train them to seek out game impacting calls. If Jamaal Williams runs for 4 yards on 1st down in the 2nd Q, and it's clear Lane Taylor held, too bad. Non-impactful penalties as well, if we're in OT and a RB breaks off a 40 yard gain and when you look at the TV replay it's clear that the WR on the opposite side of the field accidentally hit the DBs facemask while blocking, no need to flip the result of the play for a penalty that had no bearing on the play.

The Saints DPI, the RTP on Chris Jones, the offsides on Dee Ford, Clay Matthews RTP vs Minnesota, penalty plays that directly impact the outcome of games should be able to be paused to look at. I don't want to give that responsibility to a coach, but put a trained official in each stadium in a booth and let him buzz down and communicate with the head official as they take a second look.

Okay. Got it and respect the opinion - but you know - I mean you KNOW - that as soon as you infuse MORE replay into the system it will only engender calls for more. Its as certain as the sunrise.

As soon as you get "subjective" on what calls are/are not reviewable - impactful penalties? - you're opening a Pandora's Box than can only be resolved with some sort of comprehensive / blanket......policy.

That holding call thats not made on Lane Taylor? Best hope that never finds the TV screens of Mr. + Mrs. Viewing Public - cause - if its not called and the next play (or result of a drive) is for some consequential points get scored in whats deemed a consequential game...............well guess what you've got? You're right back to "its an imperfect system" - which (as I've been stating) its always been.

In the KC/NE game - the TD pass Mahomes missed to the wide open WR/RB.....
That missed connection had a huge effect on play (and score) later on. Now - what if the WR on the other side of the field - totally out of the play in a conceptual sense - is shown to everyone viewing to commit a "non-impactful" penalty. You're saying the buzzer wont (or shouldnt) sound? Why? How can that be?

Hit the buzzer - replay the play - and this time Mahomes connects. BAM. You want perfect? There's your perfect - or at least - you've given them opportunity to make that connection. How can you say you're devising a more perfect system - when you're embedding imperfections (dare I use the word: judgements) into that very system?

Ever since this replay feature has become ingrained (?) in the actual game action/flow - deciding (confirming/reversing) actual on the field events rather than just showing folks sitting at home whats going on - theres been nothing - but nothing - for calls of increased use.

Thats a slippery slope thats tough to stop sliding on.

NOW - and if you'll allow me to contradict myself - the NFL is in a serious pickle.
They intend to make profit off gambling....................you follow my drift. We're gonna wind up with replay-balloozas.

 

[Packerraymond]

11 minutes ago, Dubz41 said:

You just can't get off of the 'non-call'.  My point was that the Saints had opportunities to win the game anyway and they choked.  They made a time management mistake by throwing a pass on 1st down.  They kicked the go ahead FG and then allowed the Rams to drive for the tying FG.  Even with that- they won the toss in OT and choked.  You'll see more of this discussed by the media heads.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda.  It's over. Rams win. Saints choked.  Don't change the rules because Payton mismanaged the end of the game.

Easy to say with no rooting interest in the Saints. If this was Rodgers second SB he was robbed of after a decade of trying you'd be throwing a fit.

[Packerraymond]

10 minutes ago, Leader said:

Okay. Got it and respect the opinion - but you know - I mean you KNOW - that as soon as you infuse MORE replay into the system it will only engender calls for more. Its as certain as the sunrise.

As soon as you get "subjective" on what calls are/are not reviewable - impactful penalties? - you're opening a Pandora's Box than can only be resolved with some sort of comprehensive / blanket......policy.

That holding call thats not made on Lane Taylor? Best hope that never finds the TV screens of Mr. + Mrs. Viewing Public - cause - if its not called and the next play (or result of a drive) is for some consequential points get scored in whats deemed a consequential game...............well guess what you've got? You're right back to "its an imperfect system" - which (as I've been stating) its always been.

In the KC/NE game - the TD pass Mahomes missed to the wide open WR/RB.....
That missed connection had a huge effect on play (and score) later on. Now - what if the WR on the other side of the field - totally out of the play in a conceptual sense - is shown to everyone viewing to commit a "non-impactful" penalty. You're saying the buzzer wont (or shouldnt) sound? Why? How can that be?

Hit the buzzer - replay the play - and this time Mahomes connects. BAM. You want perfect? There's your perfect - or at least - you've given them opportunity to make that connection. How can you say you're devising a more perfect system - when you're embedding imperfections (dare I use the word: judgements) into that very system?

Ever since this replay feature has become ingrained (?) in the actual game action/flow - deciding (confirming/reversing) actual on the field events rather than just showing folks sitting at home whats going on - theres been nothing - but nothing - for calls of increased use.

Thats a slippery slope thats tough to stop sliding on.

NOW - and if you'll allow me to contradict myself - the NFL is in a serious pickle.
They intend to make profit off gambling....................you follow my drift. We're gonna wind up with replay-balloozas.

 

The system is already in place in college, minus being able to look at any penalty, it's only personal fouls in college. Pace of play is always going to be the key. If fans are demanding a perfectly called game, go watch tennis then, that's the sport for you. We need to be able to look at the game changing calls/no calls more than just once, at a random angle, at full playing speed. 

I don't want subjectivity in anyone's hands other than a trained ref. Just add one more that has the advantage of TV. It's another stop gap and not nearly the big deal you're describing.

[Dubz41]

5 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Easy to say with no rooting interest in the Saints. If this was Rodgers second SB he was robbed of after a decade of trying you'd be throwing a fit.

Sorry, wrong again.  I don't throw fits, because it's entertainment.  Just a game.

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, Dubz41 said:

Sorry, wrong again.  I don't throw fits, because it's entertainment.  Just a game.

Well then you're not the kind of fan the NFL is trying to market to either way. It's not just a game to a majority of us. It needs to be officiated properly and right now we give the officials as much help as we did at the games inception. Here's the play, make a call live speed. All players and coaches get the benefits of replay, it's time they got some help.

[Sasquatch]

On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 8:47 PM, Sasquatch said:

In these playoffs, Brady has:

Pass attempts - 90

Sacked - 0

Not surprising, considering he gets the ball out in 2.5 seconds or less every attempt.  Defenses know this but still can’t stop him/them.

Brady is currently 41.  As little as he gets touched in games (as is evidenced above) the dude "could possibly" play until he's 45 in his current system of getting the ball out in under 2.5 seconds.  I hate him .

[Leader]

14 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

If fans are demanding a perfectly called game, go watch tennis then, that's the sport for you.

Agree entirely.

14 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I don't want subjectivity in anyone's hands other than a trained ref. Just add one more that has the advantage of TV.

Well technically - thats what the on field refs are for - but comment (or intent) understood and in a way they're already there with these retired refs sitting in the announcers booth (or wherever they are...) who are constantly referred to by the announcers: "What do you think, Gene?" Only proposed difference is your proposing Gene be involved in actual / real time decisions.

Btw - is this setup setup in place now for ALL games (?) or just the nationally covered "Big" games?

14 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

 It's another stop gap and not nearly the big deal you're describing.

We'll see. Somethings gonna happen. Personally I'd be fine if they just fired the ref that blew the call. Give the "non-decision" some weight with consequence and move on. Will that appease Saint fans? In this social media / sports talk TV on every other channel world (?) - no - but who said life has got to be fair? The Packers have been screwed plenty of times. We've survived and thrived.

Anyway - good chat. No need to crush it. We've got the outlines of the discussion done already.

[Leader]

8 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

Brady is currently 41.  As little as he gets touched in games (as is evidenced above) the dude "could possibly" play until he's 45 in his current system of getting the ball out in under 2.5 seconds.  I hate him .

McDaniels.

Just sayin.

[Sasquatch]

Just now, Leader said:

McDaniels.

Just sayin.

I'm a believer.  He and Belichick have devised a scheme that allowed Brady to extend his longevity in the game.  If it wasn't so effective, and if Brady wasn't so good, I'd say what's the point of elongating Brady's career to a ridiculous age?  But until defenses finally figure out how to slow this offense down or stop it, or when Brady finally becomes a grandpa and literally can't walk anymore, they'll just keep rolling along.  FML.

[vegas492]

As a general observation...concerning the end of the Saints/Rams game.  I don't understand why it needs to be one or the other.  Certainly it was a horrible blown call.    Certainly Payton mismanaged time at the end of the game.

One should not overmatch the other.  The official blew the call.  It should not have happened.  Put in a system to get that right.

And...criticize Payton for mismanaging the end of the game.

All too often we draw lines in the sand where one is right and the other is wrong.  The truth is probably in the middle.  Make the correction to the official missing the call.  We have the technology now to do that.  And...criticize for Payton for what he did wrong.  It is okay to say both.

[Kepler]

13 hours ago, incognito_man said:

There's so many schit calls and no-calls that could be corrected in under 4-5 seconds by a stoic, un-emotional referee tucked away in a quiet box overlooking the field.

Conspiracy theory:

The league could do that..... unless they want to maintain the ability to decide games. I don't see another reason NOT to implement the policy you describe.

[Dubz41]

1 hour ago, Kepler said:

Conspiracy theory:

The league could do that..... unless they want to maintain the ability to decide games. I don't see another reason NOT to implement the policy you describe.

To what extent though?  They claim you could call holding on every single play.  So after the Dolphins beat the Pats on the unlikely lateral play....BB throws the flag......claims there was holding across the field.....The refs confirm that there was indeed a pulled jersey away from the play?

Every play? Or do we just employ it in the last two minutes?  Maybe just the playoffs (then we miss the important games to get in the playoffs) I just think that it is opening a bigger bag of worms than exist now.

Yes, it was a obvious non-call mistake (that officiating crew was known to be more on the side of let them play, which is how they got picked for that gig).  Unfortunate human error.  As long as we have humans officiating this will happen.  Settle down.

[Kepler]

2 hours ago, Dubz41 said:

To what extent though?  They claim you could call holding on every single play.  So after the Dolphins beat the Pats on the unlikely lateral play....BB throws the flag......claims there was holding across the field.....The refs confirm that there was indeed a pulled jersey away from the play?

Every play? Or do we just employ it in the last two minutes?  Maybe just the playoffs (then we miss the important games to get in the playoffs) I just think that it is opening a bigger bag of worms than exist now.

Yes, it was a obvious non-call mistake (that officiating crew was known to be more on the side of let them play, which is how they got picked for that gig).  Unfortunate human error.  As long as we have humans officiating this will happen.  Settle down.

Woah woah woah.... I'm honestly as settled as can be. Perhaps it read as a hysterical voice in your head, but I was being tongue in cheek and I absolutely refuse to use green text because it ruins jokes. Green text is hand holding imo.

[Leader]

1 minute ago, Kepler said:

Woah woah woah.... I'm honestly as settled as can be. Perhaps it read as a hysterical voice in your head, but I was being tongue in cheek and I absolutely refuse to use green text because it ruins jokes. Green text is hand holding imo.

What is this green text stuff? Punchlines for funny comments are supposed to be in green text?

[Kepler]

Just now, Leader said:

What is this green text stuff? Punchlines for funny comments are supposed to be in green text?

Apparently so people know things are jokes, sarcastic, etc. I'm not calling out Dubz or anything though, more of a side convo. Just noting that I think part of the fun is realizing the joke, and green text removes that amusing aspect.