mct288 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, Rolni said: But those good role players are the ones who tend to test the FA market after their rookie deal an got overpaid (to some extend)...I expect him to leave to a desperate team with a nice contract like McGee did. I think this is a very likely scenario. I would hate to see him go, but it would be hard to blame him or the Raiders if he just gets overpaid elsewhere. It will be nice to know that this coaching staff is here for the long haul, and guys like him (role players with upward trajectory to be more) can be identified and extended earlier so that we can see more of them at the top of their game. It will be a bummer to see 6 weeks of a really disruptive Autry and then lose him to a high bidder (which Autry deserves). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Rolni said: But those good role players are the ones who tend to test the FA market after their rookie deal an got overpaid (to some extend)...I expect him to leave to a desperate team with a nice contract like McGee did. That seems likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 12 hours ago, Darbsk said: What do you think about Denico Autry as a base RDE, he looked pretty dynamic to me last year and has always offered something of a pass rush but his run defence seems to be more disciplined recently? I have an inkling that the real key piece that will set the others off is a stud UT to apply pressure up the middle - not sure Edwards can play that part or if Vanderdoes comes back and improves but we also have the option of the draft and there appear to be a few bright prospects there. I don’t see Autry as a RDE in a 4-3. I don’t think he can get round LTs and be disruptive from the wider position. He’s a rotational piece inside for me. From what I understand Guenther relies on the front 4 to get pressure, likes a good rotation and has used DEs inside rather than DTs wide. What we do with Irvin and MEJ will be interesting this off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 13 hours ago, Dessie said: I don’t see Autry as a RDE in a 4-3. I don’t think he can get round LTs and be disruptive from the wider position. He’s a rotational piece inside for me. From what I understand Guenther relies on the front 4 to get pressure, likes a good rotation and has used DEs inside rather than DTs wide. What we do with Irvin and MEJ will be interesting this off season. Looking at the Bengals DL with Guenther in charge a key component of that was Atkins getting penetration up the middle and Dunlap applying pressure off the egde. We have an upgrade to Dunlap with Mack I believe and I think Ellis (if he stays) could be a similar level to Peko, Billings or Sims and won't be a huge drop off. The piece we're really missing is the Atkins style player. Edwards or Autry in my book can at least replicate what Johnson does and IMHO Autry can be a very similar player - Johnson has worked on his run defence and to be honest his sack and pressure totals (apart from 1 good season) are not great given he has Atkins and Dunlap taking most of the attention. It'll be interesting to see how we pan out along the DL and Mario Edwards to me is a big question mark over where he fits - he hasn't shown the explosiveness on the outside but could possibly be strong enough at UT and he'd be pretty quick inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolni Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 37 minutes ago, Darbsk said: Looking at the Bengals DL with Guenther in charge a key component of that was Atkins getting penetration up the middle and Dunlap applying pressure off the egde. We have an upgrade to Dunlap with Mack I believe and I think Ellis (if he stays) could be a similar level to Peko, Billings or Sims and won't be a huge drop off. The piece we're really missing is the Atkins style player. Edwards or Autry in my book can at least replicate what Johnson does and IMHO Autry can be a very similar player - Johnson has worked on his run defence and to be honest his sack and pressure totals (apart from 1 good season) are not great given he has Atkins and Dunlap taking most of the attention. It'll be interesting to see how we pan out along the DL and Mario Edwards to me is a big question mark over where he fits - he hasn't shown the explosiveness on the outside but could possibly be strong enough at UT and he'd be pretty quick inside. On Paper the Mack-Ellis-Edwards-Autry line could work, but both Edwards and both Autry would be big questionmarks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 What are the thoughts on Treyvon Hester at DT, saw some nice quickness from him at times and for a 7th round rookie he has already outplayed his draft slot. I think he could be a rotational UT in a 4-3 at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 4 hours ago, Darbsk said: What are the thoughts on Treyvon Hester at DT, saw some nice quickness from him at times and for a 7th round rookie he has already outplayed his draft slot. I think he could be a rotational UT in a 4-3 at least. He's good enough that I wouldn't bring back Autry. Between he, Latham, Vanderdoes, and even Ward, there's an Autry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 On 09/02/2018 at 10:29 AM, Darbsk said: Looking at the Bengals DL with Guenther in charge a key component of that was Atkins getting penetration up the middle and Dunlap applying pressure off the egde. We have an upgrade to Dunlap with Mack I believe and I think Ellis (if he stays) could be a similar level to Peko, Billings or Sims and won't be a huge drop off. The piece we're really missing is the Atkins style player. Edwards or Autry in my book can at least replicate what Johnson does and IMHO Autry can be a very similar player - Johnson has worked on his run defence and to be honest his sack and pressure totals (apart from 1 good season) are not great given he has Atkins and Dunlap taking most of the attention. It'll be interesting to see how we pan out along the DL and Mario Edwards to me is a big question mark over where he fits - he hasn't shown the explosiveness on the outside but could possibly be strong enough at UT and he'd be pretty quick inside. Carl Lawson got 8.5 sacks it’s that production that we also need to get especially if we let Irvin go as most are suggesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Dessie said: On 09/02/2018 at 10:29 AM, Darbsk said: Looking at the Bengals DL with Guenther in charge a key component of that was Atkins getting penetration up the middle and Dunlap applying pressure off the egde. We have an upgrade to Dunlap with Mack I believe and I think Ellis (if he stays) could be a similar level to Peko, Billings or Sims and won't be a huge drop off. The piece we're really missing is the Atkins style player. Edwards or Autry in my book can at least replicate what Johnson does and IMHO Autry can be a very similar player - Johnson has worked on his run defence and to be honest his sack and pressure totals (apart from 1 good season) are not great given he has Atkins and Dunlap taking most of the attention. It'll be interesting to see how we pan out along the DL and Mario Edwards to me is a big question mark over where he fits - he hasn't shown the explosiveness on the outside but could possibly be strong enough at UT and he'd be pretty quick inside. Carl Lawson got 8.5 sacks it’s that production that we also need to get especially if we let Irvin go as most are suggesting. That's a good point, the relief and rotational rushers were effective for the Bengals and I suppose in a nickel situation Irvin would be the comparison there. We basically had little to no pass rush from the rotation guys all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolni Posted February 11, 2018 Author Share Posted February 11, 2018 This is why I think Bruce has a place for at least one more year. Base SLB, nickel/dime DE. He has that ~8 sack in himself with that role relatively easily IMO. Get an interior pass rusher (or develope one) and we could be solid in the front 7 with Bowman back IMO. Solid. Add the rebuilt secondary on top of that and we finally could have a competent D around PO next season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Rolni said: This is why I think Bruce has a place for at least one more year. Base SLB, nickel/dime DE. He has that ~8 sack in himself with that role relatively easily IMO. Get an interior pass rusher (or develope one) and we could be solid in the front 7 with Bowman back IMO. Solid. Add the rebuilt secondary on top of that and we finally could have a competent D around PO next season... This was more or less his role last year and he barely got to 8 sacks. And the sack numbers are deceiving for Irvin because he barely got pressure. In Gunther's scheme -- if it mirrors what he did in Cincinnati -- Irvin will be rushing the passer more infrequently in base downs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Rolni said: This is why I think Bruce has a place for at least one more year. Base SLB, nickel/dime DE. He has that ~8 sack in himself with that role relatively easily IMO. Get an interior pass rusher (or develope one) and we could be solid in the front 7 with Bowman back IMO. Solid. Add the rebuilt secondary on top of that and we finally could have a competent D around PO next season... Yeah agreed. No need to create a hole this year. Guenther likes versatile defenders that can play a number of spots, Irvin fits the bill. With nickel defense being played more and more he will get enough opportunities to rush the passer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roi34 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 we're short on Lb talent so let's cut our best LB past rusher? lol I don't get it. Irvin isn't even making much money. Amerson is gone, smith prob gone, nelson better be gone. that frees enough for Mack and a player prob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 1 hour ago, roi34 said: we're short on Lb talent so let's cut our best LB past rusher? lol I don't get it. Irvin isn't even making much money. Amerson is gone, smith prob gone, nelson better be gone. that frees enough for Mack and a player prob. He’s making over $8 million. That’d make him one of if not the highest paid 4-3 SLB in he league — and he’s 30. He’s not a must cut but he’s definitely a cut candidate for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roi34 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: He’s making over $8 million. That’d make him one of if not the highest paid 4-3 SLB in he league — and he’s 30. He’s not a must cut but he’s definitely a cut candidate for me. Sure he is but who we filling in that spot? Unless we resign bowman and draft a LB. kind of silly to weaken defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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