Raiders Defense

[NightTrainLane]

34 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

It's     one      game.

Was it really that ludicrous of a prediction? 

JDR called him a "non-factor" last year after making him an INACTIVE for the playoff game.

He was PFF's lowest-rated DL, which doesn't mean everything in the world, but it isn't a good sign either.

Granted, he was "raw" coming out, but considering he missed most of the offseason with injuries, it would be pretty rational to assume he wouldn't be taking meaningful snaps in close games when other guys have the production and playtime to prove that they deserve more snaps.

I really don't understand why you're harping on this so much. If he plays great, then I'll be the first to admit I whiffed on him coming out and as a player. But playing 40% of snaps (I'm assuming mostly garbage time) in a game against arguably the worst team in football isn't really telling. I'm not being defensive, it is what it is.

Also, WHY would you think a guy coming off surgery would take similar snaps to established starters? I'm more curious about this than snap counts. Did you see something in Ward last year to make you think this?

Your making about a whole lot that it isn't for me. My only gripe was with your statement that he isn't in the teams plans. I simply said that I don't believe that. You doubled down, which is fine. We have already established that more games that don't have the perimeter of being a blowout will decide how they plan on using him. So we'll most likely see next week.

All that other stuff is just you trying to deflect or steer the issue toward something else and I'm not interested. It's been beat to death. The proof will be in the snaps and performance.

Edited September 19, 2017 by NightTrainLane

[MrOaktown_56]

17 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said:

Your making about a whole lot that it isn't for me. My only gripe was with your statement that he isn't in the teams plans. I simply said that I don't believe that. You doubled down, which is fine. We have already established that more games that don't have the perimeter of being a blowout will decide how they plan on using him. So we'll most likely see next week.

All that other stuff is just you trying to deflect or steer the issue toward something else and I'm not interested. It's been beat to death. The proof will be in the snaps and performance.

2

See, by this I meant more that I don't think he's a starter or significant contributor for this team, which for a high draft pick isn't good.

I don't think it means he won't get any snaps or that he's a surefire bust, or that he'll be cut in the near future.

You're right though we'll have to see in the near future.

[NightTrainLane]

13 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

See, by this I meant more that I don't think he's a starter or significant contributor for this team, which for a high draft pick isn't good.

I don't think it means he won't get any snaps or that he's a surefire bust, or that he'll be cut in the near future.

You're right though we'll have to see in the near future.

Well that isn't how you presented your statement to begin with. Only after you were challenged twice did you quantify it as starter snaps or significant contributor.

But my thing is he was a significant contributor last game. He played the same amount of snaps as the starters (he and Mario both played 43% of def snaps) and even if he had been just under them by 2-5 snaps or so that is still a significant contributor.

Like I originally said before you even first replied, with the statement I was pointing out, there was wiggle room because of the blowout but time will tell when we get into some more normal games.

[Rich7sena]

Some takeaways after watching this week's All-22:

• Defense was more aggressive than I've seen in the past. Joseph blitzed off the edge 4 or 5 times.
• Gareon Conley entered the game as the third corner on the boundary like most expected. He played reasonably well covering Jermaine Kearse for most of the game in both man and zone coverage.
• There are still some question marks along the defensive line. Interior didn't get much pressure and push was shaky against the run. Vanderdoes is significantly better as a pass rusher than a run defender at this point.
• Best improvement over last year so far? Tackling. I don't think I recall once missed tackle on a ball carrier yet.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Rich7sena

[Silver&Black88]

Yeah I'm really interested to see where our 3T/5T guys go this year.  We have a log jam there.  Autry is a goner next year for sure imo.  He's earned a contract better than what we'll want to pay him.  Which will leave us with MEJ, Eddie, Hester, and Ward.  Ward in particular is a player I'm kind of keeping tabs on.  He shouldn't have played as much snaps as he did last year, and now he's got at least 3 guys ahead of him.  Didn't we list him at edge rusher or something?

[NightTrainLane]

13 minutes ago, Silver&Black88 said:

Yeah I'm really interested to see where our 3T/5T guys go this year.  We have a log jam there.  Autry is a goner next year for sure imo.  He's earned a contract better than what we'll want to pay him.  Which will leave us with MEJ, Eddie, Hester, and Ward.  Ward in particular is a player I'm kind of keeping tabs on.  He shouldn't have played as much snaps as he did last year, and now he's got at least 3 guys ahead of him.  Didn't we list him at edge rusher or something?

He played as 3T in the base in the 2nd half and as a rush DE in nickel. So at times he was on the edge but he isn't an Edge in the sense that Mack or Von are. I mean, he is 6'5 295.

[Silver&Black88]

Just now, NightTrainLane said:

He played as 3T in the base in the 2nd half and as a rush DE in nickel. So at times he was on the edge but he isn't an Edge in the sense that Mack or Von are. I mean, he is 6'5 295.

Sure, but why did we list him there?  Or was it just DE and I wasn't paying attention?  I guess I'm not sure what the plan is for him.

[NightTrainLane]

1 hour ago, Silver&Black88 said:

Sure, but why did we list him there?  Or was it just DE and I wasn't paying attention?  I guess I'm not sure what the plan is for him.

He is listed as the backup DE behind Mack. I think the plan is just what he is being used as. As a 3T/5T in base depending on who else is on the line with him and DE in nickel.

[NightTrainLane]

On 9/15/2017 at 8:23 AM, Rich7sena said:

I wouldn't want him inside in cover 1 man (not that I expect much of that this year) because of his strength. On early downs, the slot corner is almost like a safety/linebacker hybrid. I really like him outside in cover 3.

 

On 9/16/2017 at 12:12 AM, Nodisrespect said:

Yeah he probably shouldn't be in line to tackle a NFL running back but he has the ability to cover quick guys without getting penalties, we'll see how it works out he needs to get game fit and hit the weight room.

I just watched this breakdown of Conley and thought it was interesting to note that he was put in the slot a few times last week and even made a tackle and a half assist in the run game. Not an indictment or calling anyone out. Just thought it was interesting because we all thought he'd be kept on the outside, myself included. Good video showing how well he moves and how ready to play he was

.

Edited September 20, 2017 by NightTrainLane

[big_palooka]

6 hours ago, NightTrainLane said:

 

I just watched this breakdown of Conley and thought it was interesting to note that he was put in the slot a few times last week and even made a tackle and a half assist in the run game. Not an indictment or calling anyone out. Just thought it was interesting because we all thought he'd be kept on the outside, myself included. Good video showing how well he moves and who ready to play he was

.

That "analysts" dude better not quit his day job. That was so hard to listen to 

[NightTrainLane]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

That "analysts" dude better not quit his day job. That was so hard to listen to 

Yeah, I mute it after a bit. I just like watching the technique Conley already has and how we use him. I can see him and Amerson being put on Island more so we can run those pressure packages. They both rarely are just flat beaten. Even when a catch is made on them they are right there contesting.

[Rich7sena]

8 hours ago, NightTrainLane said:

 

I just watched this breakdown of Conley and thought it was interesting to note that he was put in the slot a few times last week and even made a tackle and a half assist in the run game. Not an indictment or calling anyone out. Just thought it was interesting because we all thought he'd be kept on the outside, myself included. Good video showing how well he moves and how ready to play he was

 

For all intents and purposes, Conley was kept outside for the duration of the game. Conley came in as the RCB in nickel and bumped inside in dime. The Jets mainly used 2 or 3 receiver sets so Conley was either not on the field or in as the RCB for most of the game. It’s fine if he bumps inside in dime because ther’s virtually no threat of the run.

I’m not sure I learned anything new about him as a player or how the team plans to use him. His introduction was exactly what I expected going back to right after the draft. I do expect and hope, however, he supplants Amerson as a boundary corner sooner than later.

[Nightmare]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

That "analysts" dude better not quit his day job. That was so hard to listen to 

I had to give it a try after you saying this, and I couldn't even last a minute with the volume on. Don't think I've ever heard "the guy" used so many times in the space of 60 seconds before, and the random increases in the pitch of his voice in the middle of sentences is just brutal.

But yeah, it was still an interesting video that gave us a chance to see Conley's plays broken down. He looks like he's going to be really solid in coverage; great at pressing, playing tight to his man and also following the flight of the ball. Very limited showing so far, obviously, but good signs early on.

[NightTrainLane]

2 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

For all intents and purposes, Conley was kept outside for the duration of the game. Conley came in as the RCB in nickel and bumped inside in dime. The Jets mainly used 2 or 3 receiver sets so Conley was either not on the field or in as the RCB for most of the game. It’s fine if he bumps inside in dime because ther’s virtually no threat of the run.

I’m not sure I learned anything new about him as a player or how the team plans to use him. His introduction was exactly what I expected going back to right after the draft. I do expect and hope, however, he supplants Amerson as a boundary corner sooner than later.

Yes, most of his snaps were taken from the outside but I don't think that was in an attempt to keep him away from the slot. He played 28 snaps, was in the slot on four occasions and three of them were with 5 DBs on the field. He was also active in run support.

I think it's a more obvious plan for the future that he takes over for Smith on the boundary and he and Amerson become the starting corners. Right now with Smith injured, Carrie is the starter and he should be because of experience but as Conley keep showing out I think we'll see Carrie moved to the slot/safety role. Not because Conley can't do it but because Carrie is better at it. When Smith comes back it will be interesting to see the rotation but the writing would be on the wall for his offseason departure if Conley can keep up the tight coverage.

[Rich7sena]

20 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said:

Yes, most of his snaps were taken from the outside but I don't think that was in an attempt to keep him away from the slot. He played 28 snaps, was in the slot on four occasions and three of them were with 5 DBs on the field. He was also active in run support.

I wouldn’t call him active in run support. To his credit, most corners aren’t active in run support. I do think he was purposefully kept away from slot work because the slot requires a particular athlete Conley is not. Further, the Raiders currently don’t travel corners so I expect Conley will remain on the boundary for most of his career - which is fine.

I actually think Smith is a better player than Amerson. Amerson seems to just be a day late and a dollar short far too often without offering Smith’s upside in run support and physical coverage underneath.