BleedTheClock Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Stud muffin. He's going to be great for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistaBohmbastic Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 4 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said: Nice move, I bet he won't play as many snaps as he did last year. He will rotate with whatever rookie we draft 3 hours ago, sdrawkcab321 said: Yeah this is a crazy overpay Meh. At three years, with his history, they have plenty of outs in this contract. 3 hours ago, NudeTayne said: At this rate, next year will have about 20 third round compensatory picks. Post of the century, we can /thread now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Run defense got a major upgrade already this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, CBrownsman said: So I will say a few things to this. 1. I am looking at over the cap and it seems like right now we have 177 million in payroll + 16 million in dead money putting us at 193 being 5 million over. So it means were FINALLY kicking into our carry over money. 2. Of that money, 16 million in dead money wont be there next year. Randell has about 10 million coming off the books. Drew Station (3.8), Greg Robinson (7), JC Tretter (7.25), Kindred (2), Ogbah (2.1), Higgins (2) all coming off the books. All in all we would have about 132 million in cap liabilities. assuming the salary cap is about 200 million that would give us about 68 million in cap space. 3. On top of that we have contracts we can get rid of including...Christ Hubbard (7.3 million saves 5 million), Christian Kirksey (10 million saves 7.75), Chris Smith (5 million saves 3.75), TJ Carrie (8 milion saves 6.3) Duke Johnson (5 million saves 3.6). Right now it appears they are building up this team so we can draft and replace. I see us drafting a 3-tech DT so we can replace Sheldon Richardson in 2 years. I see us drafting a DE so we can replace Olivier Vernon in a few years. A player like Duke Johnson becomes movable with the signing of Kareem Hunt. I see us drafting an O-Linemen to replace JC Tretter. I see us drafting a CB and letting TJ Carrie go. If we continue to sign players to short term contracts to fill immediate needs and have the ability to draft their replacements we will be in very good shape long term. Look at last year as a great example. We traded for a QB to fill that need, but we drafted one to replace him. We signed 3 CB's to fill our starting need but drafted 1 to be a #1 starter. W didn't need a OG but drafted one to replace Zeitler and look where that got us. We signed the best free agent running back to a decent deal and drafted his replacement at the top of the second round. The more I watch this front office the more I like what they are doing with contracts and with players. If we continue to draft the best players available to us and replace players that aren't core players we need to keep around for a long time and re-sign the ones that are, we will be in great shape long term! I trust Paul and John to have a plan for this! Strong and good post. While I don't trust John with the salary cap, I do trust those in the building to keep us on point in that realm. My general point was that our cap situation isn't as rosy as some think given where our payroll is relative to other teams as it has built-in elements (pending top paid QB, pending top paid defensive end, pending top paid CB, unprecedented cap carry over safety net diminishing/ceasing soon) that could prove catastrophic in 3 years if our cap personnel and gm don't remain focused and diligent about the trappings of carrying over huge cap amounts for multiple years. Implicit in my post and somewhat explicit in it but more explicit in my other posts about the cap was that we'll be just fine as long as we are diligent, make sound/prudent decisions, avoid dead money huge numbers in our critical garrett, baker, ward signing offseason, and continue to turn over our roster in ways that is sustainable for our cap situation. One thing though: The projected payroll for 2020 factors in the contracts that will be coming off the books for accounting purposes. As FA is in flux, we're slated to now be 10th in payroll 2020 at 105 million.https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cash/2020/ By the time we sign our rookies and a few other FAs this year, we're likely be 5th or 6th in terms of expected league payrolls. We'll see where we end up when the time actually comes. Being in the top 5 on payroll isn't the end of the world, but it does put one amongst the select few teams that have to perform a high-wire, high pressure salary decision act/environment whereby a few missteps could have that team in serious trouble. So many teams in the league in those pressure environments make the wrong decisions that have longterm consequences. It's thought that if you're just entering the top 5 in payroll then that team is/should be in a superbowl window and should prepare for a roster reset in 3 years or so. Here's to hoping we're not one of the unfortunate ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 hours ago, DawgX said: I mean, is this that big of an overpay? I don't think it is. Probably slightly more than he's worth, but not that bad when you compare it to what other DTs are making and the types of contracts players have been receiving so far this offseason. Plus, it seems more like a deal that we can get out of after two years. Richardson is a massive upgrade over Coley. And now this gives us even more freedom and flexibility in the draft. I still wouldn't rule out DL in the first round, but now we can truly go BPA. overpay? no... he got market value and a billionaire is paying the bill. The contract being good or not has everything to do with if he's reliable/available for 2 years. 95% contracts in the NFL are effectively 2 year contracts with an out after 2 years except for franchise player contracts where the dead cap hit in year 3 could be so egregious as to prevent the team from cutting that player even if they want to if they are up against the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeRealDeal Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mind Character said: While I don't trust John with the salary cap, I do trust those in the building to keep us on point in that realm. This is the most over blow "flaw" of John Dorsey's. Everyone was worried about how he manages the cap because when he was fired from Kansas City they were going to be up against the cap but no one remembers that they went from up against it to almost 50 million under with 3 moves. Trading Alex Smith, cutting Tamba Hali and cutting Derrick Johnson. They were up against the cap but it was extremely flexible because Dorsey knew that neither of those 3 players were in the long term plans. They cleared enough caps space to not only be able to keep some of their own but then they were able to go out and add Sammy Watkins on a huge deal to give Patrick Mahomes a weapon. A good GM is never going to have a lot of cap space but it is going to be extremely flexible non-cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 This is a good signing. It seems like an overpay with the total payout reaching 39 but 3 years and 21 mil guaranteed in this market is 👌 Hes ina spot to shine with solid players surrounding him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrownsman Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 18 minutes ago, Mind Character said: Strong and good post. While I don't trust John with the salary cap, I do trust those in the building to keep us on point in that realm. My general point was that our cap situation isn't as rosy as some think given where our payroll is relative to other teams as it has built-in elements (pending top paid QB, pending top paid defensive end, pending top paid CB, unprecedented cap carry over safety net diminishing/ceasing soon) that could prove catastrophic in 3 years if our cap personnel and gm don't remain focused and diligent about the trappings of carrying over huge cap amounts for multiple years. Implicit in my post and somewhat explicit in it but more explicit in my other posts about the cap was that we'll be just fine as long as we are diligent, make sound/prudent decisions, avoid dead money huge numbers in our critical garrett, baker, ward signing offseason, and continue to turn over our roster in ways that is sustainable for our cap situation. One thing though: The projected payroll for 2020 factors in the contracts that will be coming off the books for accounting purposes. As FA is in flux, we're slated to now be 10th in payroll 2020 at 105 million.https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cash/2020/ By the time we sign our rookies and a few other FAs this year, we're likely be 5th or 6th in terms of expected league payrolls. We'll see where we end up when the time actually comes. Being in the top 5 on payroll isn't the end of the world, but it does put one amongst the select few teams that have to perform a high-wire, high pressure salary decision act/environment whereby a few missteps could have that team in serious trouble. So many teams in the league in those pressure environments make the wrong decisions that have longterm consequences. It's thought that if you're just entering the top 5 in payroll then that team is/should be in a superbowl window and should prepare for a roster reset in 3 years or so. Here's to hoping we're not one of the unfortunate ones. I absolutely agree with the fact that our cap isn't as rosy as some believe. With most of it being carry over and the fact that we are already over the cap for number for next year and using our carry over is a little scarry. That being said I have faith that this is one of the reasons we kept Paul Depodesta. We seem to be making smart moves with players that we can get out from under their contracts. There is also something to be said about bringing in players to compete when you have the QB, DE, and CB on rookie deals. And we seem to be doing that with the ability to cut ties before we need to sign those players! I have been a huge fan of most every move thats been made. I hope this can continue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgdish Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Good move. Richardson + Olivier are a big shot in the arm for our D-line so far, and I expect it will probably continue into the draft. Our defense will be much stronger this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 22 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said: This is the most over blow "flaw" of John Dorsey's. Everyone was worried about how he manages the cap because when he was fired from Kansas City they were going to be up against the cap but no one remembers that they went from up against it to almost 50 million under with 3 moves. Trading Alex Smith, cutting Tamba Hali and cutting Derrick Johnson. They were up against the cap but it was extremely flexible because Dorsey knew that neither of those 3 players were in the long term plans. They cleared enough caps space to not only be able to keep some of their own but then they were able to go out and add Sammy Watkins on a huge deal to give Patrick Mahomes a weapon. A good GM is never going to have a lot of cap space but it is going to be extremely flexible non-cap space. It wasn't overblown imo. There definitely public misperceptions and overexaggerations w/ Dorsey and the cap. Criticism of his cap management in KC was not about cap space or the cap number under Dorsey. A team can always get under the cap by trading and cutting players. It had more to do with judgment and decision making regarding contracts, contract length, over market value numbers, going against the advisement of cap specialists & personnel, as well as not communicating his rationale for cap related decisions even when they strayed from organizational plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 48 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said: This is the most over blow "flaw" of John Dorsey's. Everyone was worried about how he manages the cap because when he was fired from Kansas City they were going to be up against the cap but no one remembers that they went from up against it to almost 50 million under with 3 moves. Trading Alex Smith, cutting Tamba Hali and cutting Derrick Johnson. They were up against the cap but it was extremely flexible because Dorsey knew that neither of those 3 players were in the long term plans. They cleared enough caps space to not only be able to keep some of their own but then they were able to go out and add Sammy Watkins on a huge deal to give Patrick Mahomes a weapon. A good GM is never going to have a lot of cap space but it is going to be extremely flexible non-cap space. A good GM knows how to munipulate a contract. Best example the Bears. They just reworked Mack’s deal and it gave them about $12m in cap space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, buno67 said: A good GM knows how to munipulate a contract. Best example the Bears. They just reworked Mack’s deal and it gave them about $12m in cap space All they did was kick the can down the road a bit and make it harder to move on from him should the unthinkable happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeRealDeal Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 18 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: All they did was kick the can down the road a bit and make it harder to move on from him should the unthinkable happen. Yeah that is still a risking move and a restructure still isn't on the same level of smarts of what John Dorsey pulled off with the Chiefs. Yes, they were in cap hell just looking at the numbers but Dorsey knew Hali, Johnson and Smith were done. They were not in the long term plans and when those 3 moves by themselves went down suddenly the Kansas City had almost 50 million were able to resign some guys and then go out and spend big on Sammy Watkins. That to me is much more intelligence in working the cap than the GMs who are always reworking deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgpound1816 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I know I am one of the guys that makes it rosy...because it is. Out of the last 3 seasons, over $50 million of dead cap was accrued from players that were drafted terribly by previous regimes and they gone. The fact of the matter is....between the "Carryover" which has been strategically used for huge signing bonuses this offseason and last....the Browns are able to gain ability for the next 3 to 4 years. Like I said in a post a day or 2 ago.... this is identical to the Seahawks platform when they went to 2 Super Bowls in 4 years. Cap manipulation. Great Drafting. A rookie Qb window. Being that Double Ds has performed to perfection so far with the Draft, FA, Resignings and Contract development....the Browns will be players going forward. They're not going to be able to go into FA like this year and last year every year going forward....but that foundation is being built and can be manipulated at any time. They're top 9 next year in Cash Payroll, with 3 players every that open salary $25 mil at any point with restructuring, trades or cuts with 0 dead cap. I Love Double Ds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeRealDeal Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, dawgpound1816 said: I know I am one of the guys that makes it rosy...because it is. Out of the last 3 seasons, over $50 million of dead cap was accrued from players that were drafted terribly by previous regimes and they gone. The fact of the matter is....between the "Carryover" which has been strategically used for huge signing bonuses this offseason and last....the Browns are able to gain ability for the next 3 to 4 years. Like I said in a post a day or 2 ago.... this is identical to the Seahawks platform when they went to 2 Super Bowls in 4 years. Cap manipulation. Great Drafting. A rookie Qb window. Being that Double Ds has performed to perfection so far with the Draft, FA, Resignings and Contract development....the Browns will be players going forward. They're not going to be able to go into FA like this year and last year every year going forward....but that foundation is being built and can be manipulated at any time. They're top 9 next year in Cash Payroll, with 3 players every that open salary $25 mil at any point with restructuring, trades or cuts with 0 dead cap. I Love Double Ds Who doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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