I'm trying to understand why we are still mocking edge rushers.

[OneTwoSixFive]

28 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

When building a football team "creating or doubling down on a strength" is just as valid as "fixing a weakness" provided that the strength is a useful one, like pass rush.

An often-forgotten truth.

[MaximusGluteus]

6 hours ago, Dubz41 said:

One more point- no one knows what Gute is thinking.

Wrong.  You-know-who knows exactly what Gute is thinking because he's the smartest person alive, everyone else is an idiot, and his opinions are facts.

[firstplace]

I have not been following this thread but it is my understanding that 11 people play on the defensive side. At this point with what we have as edge rushers I would like to get another safety, corner or fast middle backer before an edge rusher. I see some guys drafting 3 edge rushers in their mocks. Having a really good back field also helps the pass rush. And the Packers back field has sucked for a while now. It seems the whole thing went to hell after Nick Collins got hurt. I would like to see them get another safety, corner, before an edge rusher. I would trade down from 12 if possible for another rd2 or rd3. Remember Justin Harrell, Jamal Reynolds, Alphonso Carricker! And a pass rush can come from more than just the edge.

 

 

 

 

[Dubz41]

24 minutes ago, firstplace said:

I have not been following this thread but it is my understanding that 11 people play on the defensive side. At this point with what we have as edge rushers I would like to get another safety, corner or fast middle backer before an edge rusher. I see some guys drafting 3 edge rushers in their mocks. Having a really good back field also helps the pass rush. And the Packers back field has sucked for a while now. It seems the whole thing went to hell after Nick Collins got hurt. I would like to see them get another safety, corner, before an edge rusher. I would trade down from 12 if possible for another rd2 or rd3. Remember Justin Harrell, Jamal Reynolds, Alphonso Carricker! And a pass rush can come from more than just the edge.

 

 

 

 

I feel an edge is still needed because the two FAs we signed only replace Perry and CMIII. We're one injury away from Fack being Edge #2.  That's why they're still mocking edges to us.

Carreker had a very average career:

Defense & Fumbles

• * Selected to Pro Bowl, + First-Team All-Pro

					Games		Def Interceptions					Fumbles
Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Int	Yds	TD	Lng	PD	FF	Fmb	FR	Yds	TD	Sk	Sfty	AV
Career					94	80	1	6	0	6			0	3	0	0	24.0		41
5 yrs		GNB			72	63	1	6	0	6			0	3	0	0	18.5		31
2 yrs		DEN			22	17											5.5		10
1984	22	GNB	LDE	76	14	14											3.0		7
1985	23	GNB	LDE	76	16	10											9.0		5
1986	24	GNB	LDE	76	16	16							0	2	0	0	2.5		6
1987	25	GNB	LDE	76	12	12	1	6	0	6							4.0		7
1988	26	GNB	LDE	76	14	11							0	1	0	0			6
1989	27	DEN	LDE	92	16	16											5.5		9
1991	29	DEN	de	92	6	1													1

[rcon14]

29 minutes ago, firstplace said:

I have not been following this thread but it is my understanding that 11 people play on the defensive side. At this point with what we have as edge rushers I would like to get another safety, corner or fast middle backer before an edge rusher. I see some guys drafting 3 edge rushers in their mocks. Having a really good back field also helps the pass rush. And the Packers back field has sucked for a while now. It seems the whole thing went to hell after Nick Collins got hurt. I would like to see them get another safety, corner, before an edge rusher. I would trade down from 12 if possible for another rd2 or rd3. Remember Justin Harrell, Jamal Reynolds, Alphonso Carricker! And a pass rush can come from more than just the edge.

 

 

 

 

Also remember Clay Matthews and BJ Raji. It's okay. You don't have to be hurt forever because a pick at a position didn't work out once. That's like saying never draft a QB in round one because Jamarcus Russell busted.

[CWood21]

On 4/9/2019 at 4:28 PM, AcGbPacker said:

Packers just invested millions in the edge rusher position, why would we draft a player who isn't going to start right away that high. We have other needs. I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted one of those tight ends from Iowa, but not at 12. There are only a few positions you draft that high and te is not one of them. The line can be addressed in later rounds. Oliver is going to be a stud. If he is there at 12 take him. I would like to trade back and fill some positions of need. Like safety, defensive tackle, another corner. Please help me out what do you think.

Look at the percentage of snaps your pass rushers usually have.  And I'm not talking about the Von Miller's of the world.  Your top 2 pass rushers are playing ~60% of the defensive snaps, your #3 pass rusher is playing somewhere in the 45-55% range, and the rest is going to your #4 EDGE.  You're looking at roughly 300 defensive snaps for your #4 EDGE.  But that's also assuming everything is going as expected.  But Kyler Fackrell's sacks per pressure was unsustainably high, and probably not repeatable.  It's due for regression.  He's probably not posting another 10+ sack season, or at least we shouldn't expect it.  Plus, Za'Darius Smith figures to get some snaps on the DL, so you're #4 EDGE probably get more snaps than the ~300 we're currently projecting.  You never can have enough pass rushers.

[Dubz41]

Just now, rcon14 said:

Also remember Clay Matthews and BJ Raji. It's okay. You don't have to be hurt forever because a pick at a position didn't work out once. That's like saying never draft a QB in round one because Jamarcus Russell busted.

You need to 'Packerize' the example.  So, since time isn't of the issue, let's say no more 1st round QBs because of Rich Campbell, 6th overall pick in 1981.  Still gives me the willies.

[rcon14]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Look at the percentage of snaps your pass rushers usually have.  And I'm not talking about the Von Miller's of the world.  Your top 2 pass rushers are playing ~60% of the defensive snaps, your #3 pass rusher is playing somewhere in the 45-55% range, and the rest is going to your #4 EDGE.  You're looking at roughly 300 defensive snaps for your #4 EDGE.  But that's also assuming everything is going as expected.  But Kyler Fackrell's sacks per pressure was unsustainably high, and probably not repeatable.  It's due for regression.  He's probably not posting another 10+ sack season, or at least we shouldn't expect it.  Plus, Za'Darius Smith figures to get some snaps on the DL, so you're #4 EDGE probably get more snaps than the ~300 we're currently projecting.  You never can have enough pass rushers.

With normal sack/pressure ratios, Fackrell should have had about five sacks last year with a pretty hefty load of pass rush snaps (60% total snaps, pretty normal for an EDGE 2). Not good production.

[VegasDan]

1 hour ago, rcon14 said:

With normal sack/pressure ratios, Fackrell should have had about five sacks last year with a pretty hefty load of pass rush snaps (60% total snaps, pretty normal for an EDGE 2). Not good production.

I say Frack should be commended for his efficiency!

 

There are a lot of ways to improve this defense. I want us to take the best player available at every pick and not reach for anyone. If that is a MLB or a DE at 12, so be it. I dont see that being an OLB, but its Gutes board and not mine.

[Striker]

3 hours ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I mean, here's the truth of the NFL: No matter how many quality pass rushers you have on your roster, this is not a position that you completely write off at any point in the draft.

Like put Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack, Von Miller, Cam Jordan, and Joey Bosa on this team, I'd still take a look at this draft and think "yeah, Ed Oliver, Montez Sweat, and Brian Burns are guys I'd like at 12."

When building a football team "creating or doubling down on a strength" is just as valid as "fixing a weakness" provided that the strength is a useful one, like pass rush.

^
Also, you can NEVER have too many quality pass rushers. They make the entire defense better.

[firstplace]

I have not been following this thread but it is my understanding that 11 people play on the defensive side. At this point with what we have as edge rushers I would like to get another safety, corner or fast middle backer before an edge rusher. I see some guys drafting 3 edge rushers in their mocks. Having a really good back field also helps the pass rush. And the Packers back field has sucked for a while now. It seems the whole thing went to hell after Nick Collins got hurt. I would like to see them get another safety, corner, before an edge rusher. I would trade down from 12 if possible for another rd2 or rd3. Remember Justin Harrell, Jamal Reynolds, Alphonso Carricker! And a pass rush can come from more than just the edge.

 

You can never have enough quality at any position! I am not saying don't invest in another edge. I think after signing 2 in free agency it is not the priority. The Packers have needs at OL, Corner, Safety, DL, LB, TE . We have an aging QB and he needs to be protected. Our backup OL sucks. We can't depend on King as a starting corner, they need another safety, a faster TE, another RB. Many needs!

 

 

[Gopher Trace]

 Packer fans' brains are broken after years of watching Rodgers get sacked so much.

Most offenses learned to negate the EDGE rushers by getting the ball out much more quickly. The Packers never similarly adapted, so our fans are still under the impression that EDGE guys are game-changers, because that is true of teams that faced us.

[Isherwood]

9 minutes ago, Gopher Trace said:

 Packer fans' brains are broken after years of watching Rodgers get sacked so much.

Most offenses learned to negate the EDGE rushers by getting the ball out much more quickly. The Packers never similarly adapted, so our fans are still under the impression that EDGE guys are game-changers, because that is true of teams that faced us.

I would say that the better evidence that they are game changers is that they come in second only to quarterbacks in how much they’re paid. 

[AlexGreen#20]

19 minutes ago, Gopher Trace said:

 Packer fans' brains are broken after years of watching Rodgers get sacked so much.

Most offenses learned to negate the EDGE rushers by getting the ball out much more quickly. The Packers never similarly adapted, so our fans are still under the impression that EDGE guys are game-changers, because that is true of teams that faced us.

Only 12:30 but a strong candidate for lousy take of the day

[firstplace]

I have not been following this thread but it is my understanding that 11 people play on the defensive side. At this point with what we have as edge rushers I would like to get another safety, corner or fast middle backer before an edge rusher. I see some guys drafting 3 edge rushers in their mocks. Having a really good back field also helps the pass rush. And the Packers back field has sucked for a while now. It seems the whole thing went to hell after Nick Collins got hurt. I would like to see them get another safety, corner, before an edge rusher. I would trade down from 12 if possible for another rd2 or rd3. Remember Justin Harrell, Jamal Reynolds, Alphonso Carricker! And a pass rush can come from more than just the edge.

 

You can never have enough quality at any position! I am not saying don't invest in another edge. I think after signing 2 in free agency it is not the priority. The Packers have needs at OL, Corner, Safety, DL, LB, TE . We have an aging QB and he needs to be protected. Our backup OL sucks. We can't depend on King as a starting corner, they need another safety, a faster TE, another RB. Many needs!

In the pro sports or life in general, it is not your income that makes you the best, it is your performance, your character, and your contribution to your team, family, friends, etc...that are the most important part of your life!

The edge from KC "Ford" led the NFL in sacks last year but in the playoff game they lost he had 0! I believe. They call it A Team Sport! The edge position is only one of the positions.