skywindO2 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 I'm an NDSU homer so Wentz all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLick12 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 It's an interesting discussion point, I remember how drastic the tides turned with the RG3 trade from year one to year three. Granted, IIRC they gave up a lot more to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Obviously way too early to know, but I'd take the picks. Of course I'd always take the picks.... I don't think it's out of the question that our front office moves one or both of the remaining picks for more picks in 2019 or 2020. It's crazy to think about but they may be continuing to reap the benefits of this trade for 4-5 drafts and it may be another 5-6 years before we can even evaluate the trade with any clarity. I love this front office... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 I think what the Browns are doing will eventually become as memorable as the Herschel Walker trade. They could potentially build a really good team just by trading back in the first round every year until they start going to the playoffs. They've accumulated an insane amount of picks over the last couple of years and have a really good chance of getting a lot of solid players. They're building through the draft at a rapid fire pace, and it's probably going to work out really well. Plenty of quarterbacks have been drafted in the later rounds and succeeded, its just a matter of time for the Browns before they hit on the right player(s) and start winning games. As for Wentz, he had a mediocre rookie season and I don't think he's going to get much better. I think at best he's going to become the next Andy Dalton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mm6492 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Of course not a direct part of that. But Eagles were able to recoup a 1st when they could trade Bradford because they had Wentz. So that helped lessen the sting a little but not having to go this year w/o a 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leoric Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 No way to tell but quality wins over quantity in any scenario. the Browns paralayed a lot of those picks into extra picks to give themselves more chances but there isn't one all-pro in that whole deal. If a team lands an all-pro then they obviously won the deal but if not it might as well have been trading the #1 pick for 7 7th rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 40 minutes ago, Boltstrikes said: No way to tell but quality wins over quantity in any scenario. the Browns paralayed a lot of those picks into extra picks to give themselves more chances but there isn't one all-pro in that whole deal. If a team lands an all-pro then they obviously won the deal but if not it might as well have been trading the #1 pick for 7 7th rounders. Nah, there are two ways to look at it players vs players or picks vs picks. Picks speak for themselves and your scenario doesn't match up. Player vs players, sure, I can see that but if Wentz ends up not being good then it was like a 7th round pick for seven 7th round picks and the Browns still win. You can't keep Wentz's value as a 1st if he isn't an all pro and drop the Browns players if they aren't. I think Wentz will be pretty good. Top 8-12 type guy with potential to be better than that and any QB has potential to be worse than that. Ignoring that the Browns were rebuilding removes the biggest motive of the trade for them. Sure they want seven all pro players but 3 or 4 quality starters likely do more for the team than a QB on a team without much around him. Kessler/Kizer may be the future 1/2 for the Browns and if Kizer ends up better than Wentz there isn't even going to be a conversation about this trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 15 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Nah, there are two ways to look at it players vs players or picks vs picks. Picks speak for themselves and your scenario doesn't match up. Player vs players, sure, I can see that but if Wentz ends up not being good then it was like a 7th round pick for seven 7th round picks and the Browns still win. You can't keep Wentz's value as a 1st if he isn't an all pro and drop the Browns players if they aren't. Quote Absolutely right. If Wentz turns out to be a bust, obviously the Browns will win any argument, unfortunately for the Browns, the Eagle FO is far better at judging talent, so the likelihood of that happening isn't a scenario I see. So far, all the trade has produced is it got the Browns the first overall pick by guaranteeing they finished last in the league. The players they drafted so far at least, haven't amounted to a whole lot. 15 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: I think Wentz will be pretty good. Top 8-12 type guy with potential to be better than that and any QB has potential to be worse than that. Ignoring that the Browns were rebuilding removes the biggest motive of the trade for them. Sure they want seven all pro players but 3 or 4 quality starters likely do more for the team than a QB on a team without much around him. Kessler/Kizer may be the future 1/2 for the Browns and if Kizer ends up better than Wentz there isn't even going to be a conversation about this trade. Quote The likelihood of Kizer/Kessler ending up better than Wentz rates about a 6% chance, those are not odds I would want to rebuild my franchise on. A lot of people here seem to think franchise QB's grow on trees. They are extremely difficult to find and if Wentz turns out anywhere near an 8 to 12 rated QB or higher, the trade will be an immense flop, unless the Browns find a QB in the next draft. The trouble with strengthing your team before you find your QB, is simply the wrong way to go about it. They will likely be an improved team next year with 3 first rounders coming on board and their record will improve slightly. However, say they end up drafting 4th overall, then they are facing 2 scenarios, 1) the 3 teams drafting ahead of them will all be QB desperate and the Browns will face another draft where they get no franchise QB and remain a bottom feeder for yet another season. 2) One of the teams drafting ahead of them is willing to trade their pick, but the likely cost could potentially be 3 first rounders if not more, so they will have paid a higher price than they would have if they had just kept Wentz in the first place. A perfect example of passing on a franchise QB and waiting another year, was when Miami passed on Ryan and the Falcons reaped the rewards, while Miami is still struggling many, many years later to become a consistent playoff team, never mind a SB contender. There is a reason why almost every GM follows the 'Golden Rule', never, never pass on a potential franchise QB if you need one, you always take one when you get the opportunity, because you never know when you will get the opportunity to draft another one. The Browns were in exactly the same situation Miami was in and the chose to not follow the 'Golden Rule" and they could be waiting another decade to find their QB. IMO, anybody who suggests breaking the 'Golden Rule', just does not have a clue on how to rebuild a team. The Cleveland FO broke the 'Golden Rule' and for me, it clearly shows they lack the knowledge to run a franchise and Brown's fans will pay the price. 15 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjapirate Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 On 8/31/2017 at 0:01 AM, ninjapirate said: I think this is kind of a dumb way to look at the trade. The eagles probably wouldn't have traded down that much if they kept those picks. So shouldn't really count against them in making the first trade. You are comparing 5 trades from browns to 1 from the eagles. How does this make any sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 43 minutes ago, ninjapirate said: You are comparing 5 trades from browns to 1 from the eagles. How does this make any sense? Because we know that those trades were possible for the pick that the Browns had and traded because they happened. It happens with all of these trades when teams give up multiple picks to move up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjapirate Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 10 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Because we know that those trades were possible for the pick that the Browns had and traded because they happened. It happens with all of these trades when teams give up multiple picks to move up. Nah the browns made 1 trade with the eagles not 5. Trading down from those picks was the Browns own choice because of how garbage they are as a team. It shouldn't be used against the eagles in some weird comparison to try and make browns fans feel better about passing on a talented young Qb the team didnt believe in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 1 minute ago, ninjapirate said: Nah the browns made 1 trade with the eagles not 5. Well if you want to ignore the players that the Browns eventually received in the deal including the future trades then you have to ignore the player the Eagles received in the deal. So The eagles traded up 6 spots from 8 to 2 for a 1st, 2nd and third round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Presnap Reads' Analysis of Wentz; McCloughan is an accomplished GM and he may be right that Wentz is the best young quarterback in the NFL, the problem is he hasn’t shown it yet. Being a thick and tall quarterback isn’t valuable if you don’t move your feet in the pocket, diagnose coverages or deliver the ball accurately. As a rookie, Wentz was bad. He wasn’t just bad because he was a rookie, he was bad even while acknowledging that he’s a rookie. He threw 31 interceptable passes and had an interceptable pass rate of 5.11 percent, right next to Blake Bortles. Wentz’s interceptable passes came in different ways but his most consistent mistakes were also his most egregious. He regularly threw the ball too far infield when trying to throw the sideline and his overthrows when attacking the middle of the field were so bad that it often looked like he was targeting the safety who would wait for the ball like a punt returner. It would be easier to assume development from Wentz if he wasn’t just a matter of months younger than Bortles. Wentz also has issues that typically don’t get better with experience. Everything you do as a quarterback starts with your footwork. Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees and Tom Brady are always in position to throw the ball, turn to the other side of the field or react to pressure because their feet are always quick and balanced. Wentz showed bad footwork in college before improving at the start of his rookie season. He regressed back to his college form after a couple of weeks. That was when he began planting his heels in the ground, staring down his first read and waiting for the pressure to come before forcing throws. When you root your feet into the ground like that you are shutting down your options as a passer while making your offensive line look bad. Doug Pederson runs a quarterback-friendly offense that gives Wentz opportunities to get rid of the ball quickly, that should help him be productive in spite of his flaws. But once it comes to making the difficult play and playing against good defenses, Wentz will have major problems. Give me the haul.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjapirate Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Well if you want to ignore the players that the Browns eventually received in the deal including the future trades then you have to ignore the player the Eagles received in the deal. So The eagles traded up 6 spots from 8 to 2 for a 1st, 2nd and third round pick. I;m not ignoring the players I am ignoring extra trades. Those have no bearing on the original trade. The browns needed assets and they got them does that mean the eagles should feel bad about trading up for a franchise QB because the browns did with those picks probably something no other team would have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomCampBody Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Not big on Wentz he is very overrated at this point so will go with the browns but its too early for any true judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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