GreenMean69 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 23 minutes ago, BAConrad said: Let's just go ahead and put a pin on the whole "Would Carson be good on Cleveland". Because it's stupid to debate. It'll never happen and so well never know. But this thread should have been over a long time ago because there is simply no argument that supports any team, especially one like Cleveland who have not had a real QB in 20+ years, passing on a potential franchise QB. It's that simple. I know some people here refuse to accept that any thing can be as simple as this..but it is true. You build a team by acquiring your franchise QB. Cleveland has passed on 2 of them already just in the last 2 drafts. The answer is simple. The Eagles won the trade, because we have our QBOTF. We are currently one of the best looking teams in the league, largely due to said quarterback. Whereas Cleveland just wasted a valuable 2nd round pick on Kizer, who was just benched in favor of....Kevin Hogan. And they can talk about their picks all they want. Fact is until those draft picks turn into anything real/players who are impactful, Philly is the winner of this trade. Browns have wasted a 3rd on Kessler a 2nd on Kizer and still dont have a QB . If they waste a 1st next draft .... they already spent what the gained from passing on Wentz and still might not have a QB after all that. Meanwhile Wentz Cost the Eagles a 2nd and 3rd and got a condtional pick from the browns and the Vikings after u include Bradford . Its not liek the Browns got a Hershall Walker type trade , or even a RG3 type. Its nice they were able to turn it into more draft picks ... but at some point you just need to draft , picks wont win you games players do . Then you have this young team all drafted aroudn same time .... That menas they will all need new contracts at same time. When you cant afford them .... You are right back to being in a mess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 hour ago, BLick12 said: I'm not saying that they drafted the right people or drafted well (it's way too early for you or anyone to decide that anyway, hell, they haven't even used all of their picks yet), I'm saying they had the right philosophy in mind, given their situation. You're assuming Wentz would be as good as he is now. Last year, with a bad supporting cast, he struggled with accuracy, mechanics, etc. Imagine that, prolonged for years on a team like the Browns, that's how you break a potential franchise QB. He'd be an upgrade over Kizer and Hogan, sure, but there's no way to know if he'd be as good as he is on the Eagles. It's possible that he would be, but I think for young QBs, it helps dramatically to be in a more favorable situation with a solid supporting cast (see Dak Prescott). Agreed this is probably the best way to view this situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesPeteC Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 If Carson Wentz was literally the only player the Eagles had I'd still pick him to win over "the haul". He'd Uncle Rico the ball all over the field on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 5 hours ago, BAConrad said: But that's the thing....I don't see anything close to a foundation when I look at the players they've gotten from the trade. A foundation would be a star player at a Premium position (edge rusher, OT, or corner) and then multiple very good starters. Did they get a blue chip prospect who could be a star player? No. Very likely Jabrill Peppers, who is really the only guy you can argue would fit that bill, isn't going to be an elite player. Good? Maybe. At best they have, a few years from now, maybe a couple good starters in Coleman and Peppers and then role players and a back up QB Sorry but Im not sold on that being a foundation. And you re kidding yourself if you don't think that Wentz would make the Browns a significantly better team. Look what Hogan did when Kizer was benched. 17/19 with 2 TDs. He threw a stupid interception, But the only reason the Browns were in that game was because Hogan was able to come in and give them at least mediocre QB play. Wentz behind their OL with those runnningbacks would at least give them a chance every week. All that offense is missing is a QB and WRs. I agree, Did all those teams that had the #1 or #2 overall pick have solid foundations when they got their franchise QB's, I don't think so, or they would not have been drafting that low, but once they got a franchise QB, they were extremely competitive within a couple of seasons. Even Peyton threw something like 26 interceptions as a rookie. However great QB's make a team much better in a short time, see the Rams and Eagles this year. The records clearly show that franchise QB's do not flop when drafted by rotten teams, or most of the great QB's would never have succeeded, they flop because they lack the intangibles needed to have success. Winning teams in the NFL have a fair # of game changers, not just some average starters and so far as I can see, the Browns got nothing resembling a game changer out of their picks. That's why teams with losing records draft higher, to give them a shot at game changers, smart GM's never pass on drafting a potential game changer, never mind a potential franchise QB. Look at the facts, they were 1-15 last year and will struggle to match that this year, so where is this budding foundation. Obviously, the owner and FO just do not have a clue on how to spot talent and all the picks in the world isn't going to change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonu62882 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Everyone can get a look at Carson tomorrow night vs the Panthers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmad Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 hour ago, El ramster said: The sad part is he's not wrong. He probably could've been a halfway decent QB if he didn't go to cleveland.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjapirate Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Deshone is a publicly known eagles fan. He'd probably take Carson over the Haul too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Not that this matters at all because it's not the case. But if I was a high end prospect entering the draft, I'd be willing to play for any team other than Cleveland, it just ruins the potential careers players who go there. Even those who DO have success like Joe Thomas, waste their entire career never even coming close to sniffing the playoffs. It's terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Danger said: Not that this matters at all because it's not the case. But if I was a high end prospect entering the draft, I'd be willing to play for any team other than Cleveland, it just ruins the potential careers players who go there. Even those who DO have success like Joe Thomas, waste their entire career never even coming close to sniffing the playoffs. It's terrible. Funny, I looked at the Eagles' career Super Bowl titles and this game up: ...and yes, I'm a bitter Cleveland fan. Even extra so after last night's predictable exclamation mark on their inevitable back to back playoff collapses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Just now, MWil23 said: Funny, I looked at the Eagles' career Super Bowl titles and this game up: ...and yes, I'm a bitter Cleveland fan. Even extra so after last night's predictable exclamation mark on their inevitable back to back playoff collapses. I can't think of franchises who have been as bad as Cleveland has been for as long as they've been. Sure the Eagles don't have a Super Bowl win (neither to the Browns) but the Browns have over 100 losses in the last 10 years. Hell 4-12 is pretty much an average season for them. It'd be just so demoralizing and pointless to play for a team like that. It feels futile. I don't think Carson would have succeeded there. Hell I doubt Peyton Manning or Tom Brady would have been successful there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, Danger said: I can't think of franchises who have been as bad as Cleveland has been for as long as they've been. Sure the Eagles don't have a Super Bowl win (neither to the Browns) but the Browns have over 100 losses in the last 10 years. Hell 4-12 is pretty much an average season for them. It'd be just so demoralizing and pointless to play for a team like that. It feels futile. I don't think Carson would have succeeded there. Hell I doubt Peyton Manning or Tom Brady would have been successful there. I'm not denying any of that, but I just find it amusing when fans from other teams who have been historically bad (Browns, Lions, Bengals, Eagles, etc.) make fun of one another's ineptitude. People would have said the exact same thing about Donovan McNabb back in 1999, and don't tell yourself anything different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, MWil23 said: I'm not denying any of that, but I just find it amusing when fans from other teams who have been historically bad (Browns, Lions, Bengals, Eagles, etc.) make fun of one another's ineptitude. People would have said the exact same thing about Donovan McNabb back in 1999, and don't tell yourself anything different. 1998 3-13 5th -- NFC East 1997 6-9 3rd -- NFC East 1996 10-6 2nd -- NFC East 1995 10-6 2nd -- NFC East 1994 7-9 4th -- NFC East 1993 8-8 3rd -- NFC East 1992 11-5 2nd -- NFC East 1991 10-6 3rd -- NFC East 1990 10-6 T2nd -- NFC East 1989 11-5 2nd -- NFC East Really not comparable. 86-74 record for the preceding decade. The Browns are 88-205 since returning to the league in 1999. Only winning 30% of their games. 38-111 since 2007 (25%) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 @Danger 1955-1977 http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/teams.nsf/histories/eagles/ 23 seasons, 4 winning records, 1 GREAT Disney movie about a bartender turned NFL Football player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Doyle Rules Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, MWil23 said: @Danger 1955-1977 http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/teams.nsf/histories/eagles/ 23 seasons, 4 winning records, 1 GREAT Disney movie about a bartender turned NFL Football player. Can't forget the movie The garage picking field goal kicking Philadelphia phenomenon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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