Abe56 Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 Gotta say, Wentz was looking pretty special yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Abe56 said: Gotta say, Wentz was looking pretty special yesterday He looked special last September too. It's a long season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 On 9/3/2017 at 2:25 AM, 49erurtaza said: On 9/1/2017 at 11:05 AM, Thomas5737 said: But theoretically any team could have and the Browns did so unless you go by just the picks themselves you can't compare the players that each team got from that trade unless you include Jack Conklin, Connor Cook and other players who weren't selected by the Browns but were picked in the slots traded and wouldn't likely be the pick that either team would have made if they stayed in that slot. Your wrong if the eagles kept the picks they could have traded back and received those picks. It's called value Exactly. You can't play the hindsight game because there is no way of knowing "Who" would of been selected or "IF" the Eagles stayed put. Also like to add if we are counting every additional trade for the Browns haul the subsequent trade for Sam Bradford (which never happens without Wentz) Should apply too. So the Chart should depict Carson Wentz (Potential FQB ) Derrick Barnett (Potential Pro Bowl DE) Vs Browns Haul. On 9/4/2017 at 2:16 AM, HorizontoZenith said: At the same time, I will say that the Eagles avoided major catastrophe by being able to swindle the Vikings out of the 14th overall pick, and they wouldn't have made that trade if they hadn't drafted Wentz. So to me, the Eagles traded up 6 picks in 2016, lost a third, fourth, moved down two spots in 2017 and lost their 2018 first round pick. If Wentz turns into even Matthew Stafford/Matt Ryan, that may have been worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPPT1974 Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 So far with a Wentz and Eagles win makes Philly fans happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted September 11, 2017 Author Share Posted September 11, 2017 31 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said: Exactly. You can't play the hindsight game because there is no way of knowing "Who" would of been selected or "IF" the Eagles stayed put. Also like to add if we are counting every additional trade for the Browns haul the subsequent trade for Sam Bradford (which never happens without Wentz) Should apply too. So the Chart should depict Carson Wentz (Potential FQB ) Derrick Barnett (Potential Pro Bowl DE) Vs Browns Haul. ok we'll amend Carson Wentz (Potential FQB) Derrick Barnett (potential Pro Bowl DE) Deshone Kizer (potential FQB) Corey Coleman (potential pro bowl WR) S Coleman (potential pro bowl RT) Jabrill Peppers (potential pro bowl S) Derrick Kindred (starting safety with game saving INT in endzone yesterday) Ricardo Louis (3rd wr with huge clutch catch on drive to make game 21-18 in 4th quarter; potentially starting this week cause Kenny Britt has sucked)) + 1st rd pick from HOU + 2nd round pick from PHI still take the haul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 I like the Titans haul better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 21 minutes ago, mistakey said: ok we'll amend Carson Wentz (Potential FQB) Derrick Barnett (potential Pro Bowl DE) Deshone Kizer (potential FQB) Corey Coleman (potential pro bowl WR) S Coleman (potential pro bowl RT) Jabrill Peppers (potential pro bowl S) Derrick Kindred (starting safety with game saving INT in endzone yesterday) Ricardo Louis (3rd wr with huge clutch catch on drive to make game 21-18 in 4th quarter; potentially starting this week cause Kenny Britt has sucked)) + 1st rd pick from HOU + 2nd round pick from PHI still take the haul Revisit this again in 2-3 yrs when Cleveland probably continues their long trend of 1/2 those players not being on the Browns roster. I do like Peppers though!! Hopefully He's a 1st rounder who sticks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 On 8/30/2017 at 4:27 PM, SteelKing728 said: I'm a big fan of building the team first before getting the QB. Having the QB in a bad position could ruin a promising player (David Carr, Tim Couch or even Steve Young). Now, that's a limited analysis of the players, but it's a generalized statement. Take it for what its worth. Add Andrew Luck to that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 This all comes down to one thing and that is how big of a gap in 2 years do you think there is between Kizer and Wentz. Is the gap between Kizer and Wentz: Corey Coleman Shone Coleman Jabrill Peppers Derrick Kindred Ricardo Louis + 1st rd pick from HOU For arguments sake lets just say Kizer turns out to be a B level starting QB (Alex Smith) and Wentz goes on to be a A level QB (Matt Stafford). Though obviously this could change and is pure speculation. The early returns from Corey Coleman, Jabril Peppers and Derrick Kindred let alone Shon Coleman as well show that isnt nearly a big enough gap to say the Eagles 'won' the trade. Now, lets say that Houston 1st rounder turns out to be Saquon Barkley because the Texans are looking trash. Would you rather have Peppers, Kindred, Coleman, Barkley and Alex Smith or Matt Stafford. If Peppers turns out to be the second coming of Earl Thomas (which it looks there is a good chance of that happening) then you take Kizer/Peppers alone over Wentz and that doesnt even factor in the other 5 young talents you have that could become Pro Bowl level players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 2 hours ago, Nabbs4u said: Also like to add if we are counting every additional trade for the Browns haul the subsequent trade for Sam Bradford (which never happens without Wentz) Should apply too. So the Chart should depict Carson Wentz (Potential FQB ) Derrick Barnett (Potential Pro Bowl DE) Vs Browns Haul. That isn't how a trade comparison works. You can use that as an Eagle fan to show that all of the moves added up to a total but the pick they received from the Vikings was never something that the Browns gave them in the deal. You got #2 overall and a 4th. If you traded that 4th for a 3rd the following yeah you can use that. If you traded that 4th for a backup QB you can use that. You can't use a pick you got in a trade from a player that was already on your roster. Unless of course we get to use Garrett because if we would have took Wentz we would have won 3 games and wouldn't have been able to select him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 15 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: That isn't how a trade comparison works. You can use that as an Eagle fan to show that all of the moves added up to a total but the pick they received from the Vikings was never something that the Browns gave them in the deal. You got #2 overall and a 4th. If you traded that 4th for a 3rd the following yeah you can use that. If you traded that 4th for a backup QB you can use that. You can't use a pick you got in a trade from a player that was already on your roster. Unless of course we get to use Garrett because if we would have took Wentz we would have won 3 games and wouldn't have been able to select him. You are correct!!! However the end results from this trade which allowed the Bradford trade to occur "should" still apply. From another source to recap both sides! https://www.google.com/amp/www.csnphilly.com/the700level/eagles-initial-trade-carson-wentz-doesnt-look-so-costly-anymore%3famp#ampshare=http://www.csnphilly.com/the700level/eagles-initial-trade-carson-wentz-doesnt-look-so-costly-anymore Eagles give:Bradford No. 8 (traded to TEN, OT Jack Conklin) Third-round pick (traded to CAR, CB Daryl Worley) Fourth-round pick (traded to OAK, QB Connor Cook) First-round pick in '17 Second-round pick in '18 Eagles get:Wentz Vikings' first round-pick in '17 Browns' fifth-round pick in '17 (can become fourth) Vikings' fourth-round pick in '18 (can become second or third) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 3 hours ago, Nabbs4u said: You are correct!!! However the end results from this trade which allowed the Bradford trade to occur "should" still apply. From another source to recap both sides! https://www.google.com/amp/www.csnphilly.com/the700level/eagles-initial-trade-carson-wentz-doesnt-look-so-costly-anymore%3famp#ampshare=http://www.csnphilly.com/the700level/eagles-initial-trade-carson-wentz-doesnt-look-so-costly-anymore Eagles give:Bradford No. 8 (traded to TEN, OT Jack Conklin) Third-round pick (traded to CAR, CB Daryl Worley) Fourth-round pick (traded to OAK, QB Connor Cook) First-round pick in '17 Second-round pick in '18 Eagles get:Wentz Vikings' first round-pick in '17 Browns' fifth-round pick in '17 (can become fourth) Vikings' fourth-round pick in '18 (can become second or third) Yeah you can review the offseason for the Eagles that way. It isn't a Browns/Eagles trade result comparison though. If Wentz flops and the Browns get one good player from the deal and the Eagles get an all time great from the Bradford trade that doesn't mean the Eagles won the trade between the two teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I'm not sure where the Vikings 1st (Barnett) comes into play here? He wasn't aquired with a pick from the Browns or as part of a trade of a pick the Browns gave them. Should we count the 5th next year from KC we got for Erving because Coleman looked good enough we were able to trade Erving? Of course not, it has nothing to do with the original deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 6 hours ago, Nabbs4u said: Revisit this again in 2-3 yrs when Cleveland probably continues their long trend of 1/2 those players not being on the Browns roster. I do like Peppers though!! Hopefully He's a 1st rounder who sticks! dont worry i plan on revisiting this very frequently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 It's still early. If Kizer turns out to be the man then we win. If not? Meh. I'm still a huge fan of Wentz and would have taken him in a heartbeat. But this just may be that we lucked out and just may come out ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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