1[12]: Rashan Gary [EDGE; Michigan]

[pacman5252]

I don’t think too many  people were mad about Bulaga over Dez.  Bulaga was a top 10 pick that fell at a position of need.

I get the Gary hate (injury/lack of production, projected lower, other options). I will say 10 years ago in the pre pff era, Gary would have been higher on the boards since the national pundits put more stock in freakness, the one thing Gary was top of the class at, and less in production.

[AlexGreen#20]

2 hours ago, pacman5252 said:

I don’t think too many  people were mad about Bulaga over Dez.  Bulaga was a top 10 pick that fell at a position of need.

I get the Gary hate (injury/lack of production, projected lower, other options). I will say 10 years ago in the pre pff era, Gary would have been higher on the boards since the national pundits put more stock in freakness, the one thing Gary was top of the class at, and less in production.

If anything i think his lack of counting stats may have hurt him more.

[ThatJerkDave]

20 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

I can remember back when Bulaga was drafted. One live commentator said something like "Look at that guy, a big tackle from Iowa. Look at the size of his head. He's just perfect for Green Bay, perfect." The 'big head' comment was somewhat strange, but the overall tone of his comments was very positive.

Jon Gruden.

[boratt]

My favorite pass rush move is the hump move. It’s one of the rarest of pass rush moves because it takes speed to set up, strength and length to execute and then explosion to finish. But that’s not why I like it. I like it because it humiliates OL. 

Rashan Gary is one of the few players coming out in the last 10+ years that I see executing legit, throw guys around hump moves.

Gary’s hump move and one-arm jab and drive are things of pass rush beauty. The college stats won’t  matter. I can’t wait for the season to open to see Gary play! He’s coming into a good mix of pass rushers already so he’ll have fresh legs and get a lot of one on ones! No excuse for Gary not to have pass rush success! 

[vegas492]

Catching up....

That Chubb/Gary comparison was great to see.  I guess I don't see Gary like Chubb at all, so that was enlightening.

When I see Gary's tape, I see an Aaron Donald type player.  Donald is shorter.  But that's what i see.  Quickness with some power.  Only I don't think that Gary wants to be nearly as physical as Donald.

Very much hope I'm wrong and that he is more Chubb.  Though I agree with AG#20 in that the beauty of Chubb coming out was the refinement of his moves.  That's not Gary.  Not yet.

And please don't say I'm "down" on Gary.  I'm taking the wait and see approach.  He's going the right things.  He's in a perfect spot to where he doesn't have to carry a defense.  All he has to do is play his role, which should be as a rusher when hopefully the other team is a little winded.  I think this is a perfect situation for him to be in.

[Joe]

46 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Catching up....

That Chubb/Gary comparison was great to see.  I guess I don't see Gary like Chubb at all, so that was enlightening.

When I see Gary's tape, I see an Aaron Donald type player.  Donald is shorter.  But that's what i see.  Quickness with some power.  Only I don't think that Gary wants to be nearly as physical as Donald.

Very much hope I'm wrong and that he is more Chubb.  Though I agree with AG#20 in that the beauty of Chubb coming out was the refinement of his moves.  That's not Gary.  Not yet.

And please don't say I'm "down" on Gary.  I'm taking the wait and see approach.  He's going the right things.  He's in a perfect spot to where he doesn't have to carry a defense.  All he has to do is play his role, which should be as a rusher when hopefully the other team is a little winded.  I think this is a perfect situation for him to be in.

I can see that comparison after watching that 30 minute tape that was posted here and come to think of it, Gary plays with a very low center of gravity for someone his height, which is crucial in the leverage game. 

 

2 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Jon Gruden.

Now here's a guy that likes big guys with big heads in rust belt cities...

[vegas492]

3 minutes ago, Joe said:

I can see that comparison after watching that 30 minute tape that was posted here and come to think of it, Gary plays with a very low center of gravity for someone his height, which is crucial in the leverage game. 

I liked the workout video.  That burst is kind of unreal for a guy that size.  To me, it looks like he can turn 10 bad pounds of body weight into 10 great pounds and probably get quicker/faster.  Which is scary.

I know I'm still slated/jaded by what I read concerning Gary.  I probably worry too much about him not being physical enough or love football enough.

Either way, I think if you want him to succeed, he plays a lot outside and a little inside.  I think he's gonna get beat up pretty good inside.  But on that edge, he could be a force, even as a rookie.  3 years from now I could still be eating crow.

[Joe]

4 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I liked the workout video.  That burst is kind of unreal for a guy that size.  To me, it looks like he can turn 10 bad pounds of body weight into 10 great pounds and probably get quicker/faster.  Which is scary.

I know I'm still slated/jaded by what I read concerning Gary.  I probably worry too much about him not being physical enough or love football enough.

Either way, I think if you want him to succeed, he plays a lot outside and a little inside.  I think he's gonna get beat up pretty good inside.  But on that edge, he could be a force, even as a rookie.  3 years from now I could still be eating crow.

That alone HAS to be why he's going to rush from a 2-point stance. Give him that extra step and all that momentum with that left stiff-arm he gives dudes and he'll just mow over OT's...

[craig]

1 hour ago, boratt said:

My favorite pass rush move is the hump move. It’s one of the rarest of pass rush moves because it takes speed to set up, strength and length to execute and then explosion to finish. But that’s not why I like it. I like it because it humiliates OL. 

Rashan Gary is one of the few players coming out in the last 10+ years that I see executing legit, throw guys around hump moves.

Gary’s hump move and one-arm jab and drive are things of pass rush beauty. The college stats won’t  matter. I can’t wait for the season to open to see Gary play! He’s coming into a good mix of pass rushers already so he’ll have fresh legs and get a lot of one on ones! No excuse for Gary not to have pass rush success! 

I'm not trying to be argumentative or anti-Gary.  I hope he turns out to be everything you see in him.  

But, what I still don't quite understand, is if he's going to be humiliating NFL OL and throwing them around with hump moves and one-hand jabs, why was he not more frequently able to throw around college OL?  

[boratt]

15 minutes ago, craig said:

I'm not trying to be argumentative or anti-Gary.  I hope he turns out to be everything you see in him.  

But, what I still don't quite understand, is if he's going to be humiliating NFL OL and throwing them around with hump moves and one-hand jabs, why was he not more frequently able to throw around college OL?  

First, you have to watch tape to know how he plays. 

 

Maybe some of the reason Gary had 10.5 sacks in three years of college football is the same reason JJ Watt had 11.5 sacks in three years and then 37 in his first theee years in the NFL.  Big 10 football, quick throws, run first offensive alignments, attention given in pass rush situations. 

 

He did do those things and for a number of reasons they didn’t register as sacks in college but will in the NFL. 

 

If I had to summarize Gary’s game I would say speed, length, strength and explosion. I would add dominant as well. 

Edited July 8, 2019 by boratt

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, craig said:

I'm not trying to be argumentative or anti-Gary.  I hope he turns out to be everything you see in him.  

But, what I still don't quite understand, is if he's going to be humiliating NFL OL and throwing them around with hump moves and one-hand jabs, why was he not more frequently able to throw around college OL?  

I saw different things than boratt.  Which is why the Gary discussion is fun.

I saw a kid that was very much double teamed.  As in he wanted to use that club move a lot, but was either worn down from battling two guys so that Winovich and Bush could make plays, or someone who himself was pretty much wore down from taking that beating.  Didn't see a whole lot of him on obvious passing downs last year either.  Was it him and his effort?  Injury?  Coaches keeping him fresh?  Who knows.  But this much I know, when it was an obvious passing down, it wasn't a lock that Gary would be in there.  And when he was in there, he was doubled.

I saw very little explosion.  And for every play that I saw that had an explosive movement, there were 10 plays that showed him simply occupying space and hand fighting two guys.  To be very fair here, I thought he lacked the passion/drive to beat a double team.  He seemed resigned to taking up guys and space so that others could make plays.

I agree with the above post that if you want to get Gary's best.....he should use that burst off of the edge.  That is what jumped out at me when looking at those training videos.  Men that size have no business being that quick.  If the coaching staff can get those hands working in coordination with those feet (and hopefully hips), then you've got something truly elite to work with.  And on this squad...he's going to see more 1:1 than he's seen his last 4 years of playing football.  He could thrive here.

While there is much risk with Gary, it is very hard to ignore the upside, too.  Above post is correct concerning Watt.  If Gary has the drive that Watt has, he's gonna be a top EDGE very soon.  

 

[Joe]

3 hours ago, boratt said:

Big 10 football, quick throws, run first offensive alignments, attention given in pass rush situations. 

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

I saw a kid that was very much double teamed. 

 

...and there you have it: the reason Gary's numbers are where they are...

[AlexGreen#20]

3 hours ago, boratt said:

First, you have to watch tape to know how he plays. 

 

Maybe some of the reason Gary had 10.5 sacks in three years of college football is the same reason JJ Watt had 11.5 sacks in three years and then 37 in his first theee years in the NFL.  Big 10 football, quick throws, run first offensive alignments, attention given in pass rush situations. 

 

He did do those things and for a number of reasons they didn’t register as sacks in college but will in the NFL. 

 

If I had to summarize Gary’s game I would say speed, length, strength and explosion. I would add dominant as well. 

This seems like a reasonable and not at all homer take

Gary had 3.5 sacks on the year, against Western Michigan, Nebraska, and Indiana. 

He had 6.5 TFLs, only 1.5 coming against teams with a pulse.

Also it really should be mentioned,

JJ Watt had 21 TFLs his JR year and 15.5 his sophomore year. Rashan Gary had 23 TFLs total. 

There is no production case to be argued that Watt and Gary were on the same tier. There last two years were 7/21 vs. 3.5/6.5. Come the hell on.

Edited July 8, 2019 by AlexGreen#20

[Packerraymond]

5 hours ago, boratt said:

My favorite pass rush move is the hump move. It’s one of the rarest of pass rush moves because it takes speed to set up, strength and length to execute and then explosion to finish. But that’s not why I like it. I like it because it humiliates OL. 

Rashan Gary is one of the few players coming out in the last 10+ years that I see executing legit, throw guys around hump moves.

Gary’s hump move and one-arm jab and drive are things of pass rush beauty. The college stats won’t  matter. I can’t wait for the season to open to see Gary play! He’s coming into a good mix of pass rushers already so he’ll have fresh legs and get a lot of one on ones! No excuse for Gary not to have pass rush success! 

You still need to be able to run the arc as an edge rusher or the tackles will sit and anchor. You aren't moving an OT with a bull or hump move without a speed move unless you're Reggie White levels of strong, which Gary is not. Gary has no counter moves to the bull, which is a factor in the equation of why he had limited college production.

[thrILL!]

7 hours ago, vegas492 said:

I know I'm still slated/jaded by what I read concerning Gary.  I probably worry too much about him not being physical enough or love football enough.

I remember seeing the bolded mentioned after we drafted him but where does this opinion come from?  Interviews?  Was he not excited enough in them for some fans?  How does one even quantify a player's love for football?  Esp when they've never spoken with him face to face even one time.