bcb1213 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 3 hours ago, PARROTHEAD said: Last 2 weeks Raw hit the 2nd all time lowest watched both weeks. What exactly are you defending? Eddie spent a decade as a cruiser in a cruiser division building for his moment. Jericho spent years in a Cruiser division before being brought up for more. WCW surpassed WWF while Bret was getting top billing. You build for special moments to where you can push for such to happen. Last done truly right was DBs. Kofis wasnt bad. To bring a 5'7 Ricochet up and "Oh this guy does flippity doos, lets toss him in all these title matches to show him off." They need the Cruiser Division back, pack it full of these guys all going for the belt like WCW did. And let big guys brawl for the HEAVYWEIGHT belt. And the occasion comes up, then you bring the guy up like they did with Jericho or Eddie. But they don't have ricochet going after the heavyweight championship. He's only gone after the US title since he's been up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PARROTHEAD Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, bcb1213 said: But they don't have ricochet going after the heavyweight championship. He's only gone after the US title since he's been up Why do these guys need to fill the heavyweight division ranks? WCW was on top of the world when they had 2 amazing divisions. Heavyweight and Cruiserweight. And it wasnt all blended. WCW Cruiser division sported the likes of Juventud, Psycosis, Malenko, Jericho, Mysterio, Eddie and Chavo, Ultimo Dragon, Kidman. And as a whole back then, Id take that batch over the little guys pushed for major titles today. But then, they had a place for that talent, while the Heavyweights allowed the NWO, DDP, Sting and all those guys to shine. We dont have anything of the likes today. We have one big jumbled mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcb1213 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 9 hours ago, PARROTHEAD said: Why do these guys need to fill the heavyweight division ranks? WCW was on top of the world when they had 2 amazing divisions. Heavyweight and Cruiserweight. And it wasnt all blended. WCW Cruiser division sported the likes of Juventud, Psycosis, Malenko, Jericho, Mysterio, Eddie and Chavo, Ultimo Dragon, Kidman. And as a whole back then, Id take that batch over the little guys pushed for major titles today. But then, they had a place for that talent, while the Heavyweights allowed the NWO, DDP, Sting and all those guys to shine. We dont have anything of the likes today. We have one big jumbled mess. I don't know if you're just jaded or what Since they introduced it in 2016, the universal (heavyweight) Champs of more than a day are Kevin Owen Goldberg Brock Roman Seth Rollins Bray Wyatt Since 2016 Wwe champions Dean Ambrose AJ Styles John Cena Bray Wyatt Randy Orton Jinder Mahal (lol) Daniel Bryan Kofi Kingston Brock DB just made that miraculous neck recovery and Kofi was lightning in a bottle. Outside that idk if there's small dudes on that list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PARROTHEAD Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 3 hours ago, bcb1213 said: DB just made that miraculous neck recovery and Kofi was lightning in a bottle. Outside that idk if there's small dudes on that list We just had 3 major title matches at Survivor Series where 4 of the 6 guys involved were all 5'9 or smaller. Weve had periods were up to 7 of the 9 titles on the mains were held by little guys. At one point this year it was just Rowan and Naka when Rowan had the tag title. The Revival are inches smaller than this ref in this match. And its good production to have them as champs repeatedly? Like Ill continue to say, look at the ratings. Its not a product people can buy in to when champions are so tiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcb1213 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, PARROTHEAD said: We just had 3 major title matches at Survivor Series where 4 of the 6 guys involved were all 5'9 or smaller. Weve had periods were up to 7 of the 9 titles on the mains were held by little guys. At one point this year it was just Rowan and Naka when Rowan had the tag title. The Revival are inches smaller than this ref in this match. And its good production to have them as champs repeatedly? Like Ill continue to say, look at the ratings. Its not a product people can buy in to when champions are so tiny. Rey who lost in a squash match basically is the only 5'9 guy or shorter guy I see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PARROTHEAD Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, bcb1213 said: Rey who lost in a squash match basically is the only 5'9 guy or shorter guy I see Rey, Bryan, Cole and Dunne. And in case it needs mention. Crash Holly wasnt really "well over 400lbs" either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcb1213 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Cole is 6'0 Bryan is 5'10 Dunne is 5 10 or 11 depending on where you look Not giants but NXT is a different type of show. I don't think you can judge that. I think it's only had two larger Champs ever in Joe and McIntyre. It's more of an indy based show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PARROTHEAD Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 hour ago, bcb1213 said: Cole is 6'0 Bryan is 5'10 Dunne is 5 10 or 11 depending on where you look Not giants but NXT is a different type of show. I don't think you can judge that. I think it's only had two larger Champs ever in Joe and McIntyre. It's more of an indy based show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Prince Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 should just bring back the light heavyweight title 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, bcb1213 said: Cole is 6'0 Bryan is 5'10 Dunne is 5 10 or 11 depending on where you look Not giants but NXT is a different type of show. I don't think you can judge that. I think it's only had two larger Champs ever in Joe and McIntyre. It's more of an indy based show Having met Daniel Bryan...he is absolutely not 5'10. I'm 5'9 and I was clearly taller than him. All of those guys are billed 2-3 inches more than what they actually are. Not that I agree with the point that much. Small guys haven't been top champions on anything other than developmental. Edited December 3, 2019 by Bullet Club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcb1213 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 36 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: Having met Daniel Bryan...he is absolutely not 5'10. I'm 5'9 and I was clearly taller than him. All of those guys are billed 2-3 inches more than what they actually are. Not that I agree with the point that much. Small guys haven't been top champions on anything other than developmental. DB has had a couple runs but about it lately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, bcb1213 said: DB has had a couple runs but about it lately DB being the exception because he's legit. He's a legitimate trained fighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Part of the reason "big men" have faded off is because certain sects of the audience have poo-poo'd big men having big men matches. Want recent evidence? Go look at the AEW fanboys that littered their opinions in on the Twitter war (if you can even call it that, it was basically a molehill made into a mountain like most things on Twitter) between Strowman and Luchasaurus. Tons of people rushed to slag off Braun saying that Luchasaurus "wrestles" better than him. Braun's a big man working a big man match. He's plenty athletic, but it isn't logical for him to constantly be throwing ultra-athletic moves every damn match the way Luchasaurus does because doing so makes those moves less special. Go back and watch Andre matches before his back started giving him problems (about the only stuff I'm aware that's on the internet is stuff from Japan, but it's there), dude was athletic as hell, but he also had the common sense to know what was putting food on his plate and (a literal ton of) wine in his belly - that he was a huge mofo, so that was what he sold. What took major demographic away from pro wrestling (as a whole, it's not just WWE) was that MMA became way more accessible - and is actually real. Bigger dudes who couldn't hack it as football players (which was the old school pipeline for pro wrestling in the territory days) now are just as likely, if not more, to turn to training for MMA as they are pro wrestling because they don't need to put in quite as much gym time to get the pro wrestling physique, so long as they can be the big (fat) heavyweight guy who is willing to stand and bang. Not saying they'll make it to UFC, but that doesn't stop them from going the avenue, that pays as good or better at the lower, independent levels than pro wrestling does. What MMA has also done though is expose people to the idea that size isn't everything. Anyone actually remember those PRIDE openweight tournaments? How many Super-heavyweights and heavyweights were going the distance, versus getting put out by middleweights? Danny Hoge was 6'1" (on a good day, definitely closer to 5'10"-5'11") and he could wreck most 300-lb'ers in any locker room he was in - dude could legitimately rip phonebooks in half and crush whole apples with his bare hand(s); he's closer to what you've got nowadays - albeit not all of them are legitimate tough guys, but that doesn't mean they can't be sold as such. BJ Penn is 5'9" and walks around at somewhere between 180 and 190, how many guys with 50 pounds on him do you want to bet he's sonned in sparring or training? Do I even need to bring up one of the greatest fighters to ever put on a pair of gloves who was barely 6'0" and weighed 183 lbs in Sakuraba? Both Jacob Fatu and Alex Hammerstone are my height (I've stood right across from them while talking to them), but both of them look like monsters on TV because they know how to work big man matches properly and they carry themselves like big men. Since the Nasty Boys were brought up... um... the tallest of either of them was somewhere between 6'2 and 6'3; the other was a couple inches shorter. Dusty was 6'2" on a good day, and that was before the weight started compressing his spine and actually made him shorter later in his career. Davey Boy, who was brought up recently, was 5'11" (it's what he was even billed at). Scotty Steiner? Somewhere between 6'0" and 6'1". Haku/Meng - the guy that, hands-down, most every guy from his era that's done a shoot interview has said was the biggest badass in the locker room and took on multiple guys in bar fights multiple times - another of those barely-over-6'0"-on-a-good-day types. Say what you will about the guys in WWE/NXT being shorter, but they're still putting the time in in the gym to present themselves right, they're just not juicing the way guys like Steiner and Bulldog were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 7 hours ago, Bullet Club said: Having met Daniel Bryan...he is absolutely not 5'10. I'm 5'9 and I was clearly taller than him. All of those guys are billed 2-3 inches more than what they actually are. Not that I agree with the point that much. Small guys haven't been top champions on anything other than developmental. In Brian's defense, his natural posture is crap and he's probably suffered some spinal compression along the way through his career. I've stood by him (aisle-side seat at a PWG show when he was still wrestling as American Dragon) as he was coming down the aisle and the top of his head still came up to my eye-level, and I'm 6'2". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, The LBC said: In Brian's defense, his natural posture is crap and he's probably suffered some spinal compression along the way through his career. I've stood by him (aisle-side seat at a PWG show when he was still wrestling as American Dragon) as he was coming down the aisle and the top of his head still came up to my eye-level, and I'm 6'2". Isn't the aisle typically on a slope though? I bumped into him at an airport, shook his hand and would guess he's 5'8 at most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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