Lets Discuss All Things Wrestling - Even The T-Shirt Company AEW!

[Dr LBC]

1 hour ago, PARROTHEAD said:

Joe has been popping up and then vanishing since he was signed. Hes never been continuously used over the long haul hes been there. And every time propped up, hes knocked down by some babyface and vanishes from the scene for periods.

That's because Joe keeps getting injured mid-program.  He's been featured on the upper to upper-mid card every time he's been healthy and protected in the sense that he's worked in on commentary in some capacity (pre-show/RAW) when he's injured but close to returning so that he's still able to get mic time.

Kofi is the worst of the 3 in the New Day on the mic.  Part of that is script, but part of that (if you watch Up Up Down Down) is just plain Kofi's personality.

Also, Bulldog would have been featured considerably more in the upper and even ME scene in the early post-Hogan 90's era except that he couldn't stay clean and kept getting popped at the same time that Vince ended up in front of Congress over the whole steroids stuff.  It also didn't help him that his biggest advocate (in terms of who had stroke) backstage was also, low-key, his biggest Achilles heel to being a mainstay in the ME scene because, until it happened organically with Vince strapping a rocket to pushing Shawn as a babyface, Bret refused to work as a heel.  There have been soooo many accounts that he saw himself as a white hat only type, and as long as Bret was working babyface, there was more money in Bret versus Owen programs if they were going to do the family vs family angle than there was in Bret/Davey.

[Dr LBC]

8 hours ago, The LBC said:

Fan?  Not the word I would use.  I think he's spot-on on a number of his takes though.  He holds grudges and doesn't let go of them, but he's no more of a hypocrite (and he is to a degree) than many of the people who go out of their way to go after him.  His thinking that talent actually ought to put more effort into selling and that more guys need to learn how to make it look like they're not assisting on moves, as opposed to it being transparently clear they are (which is made worse by how overexposed some of these moves have become that they've lost their specialness are the modern day equivalent of an arm-drag), is completely righteous; @Bullet Club and I even had a discussion about this very topic several pages back.

Jim puts his foot in his mouth a ton, but he also gets a lot of self-righteous hate from people who excuse it when it comes from other places, but go out of their way to try and rake Cornette over the coals for it because he's critical of the guys that they believe are the best in the world (and while they've worked with the best in the world, they're not the best in the world... and this isn't me soapboxing NXT or WWE either - the best in the world are in New Japan).  I'm more an outward fan of Jim's cohost Brian Last; the dude knows what he's talking about.

@Troy Brown Going even a step further, it's been the retired talent that have since gone into training that I'm a much more devoted follower of - and they have a very similar message to Cornette, they're just better at presenting their arguments, but they're just as honest.  I've been watching a lot of Hannibal TV of late because some of these guys who got that last days of the territories break-in to the business, and are quite savvy individuals, and are now trainers like Al Snow, Shane Douglas, and Lance Storm have been providing some really sound insight.  Al glorifies the "old school" to a point where I could see some people being critical of him, but he presents an extremely logical case for all his positions.  And Shane provides a very business-aware/savvy critique and it's actually him that I gained the perspective that both sides (WWE and AEW) really do seem to be lacking for the right kind of veteran leadership in the locker room.  He talked about how when he was on the rise but still young, he was quick to recognize and correct bad habits he had that kept from hooking a more expansive audience, quite literally, because he was afraid of what the reaction of the vets in the locker room (like Bill Watts) would be if he didn't.  In AEW's case, and it's also prevalent in WWE with guys that come up from NXT to the main roster because they no longer have the PC veteran coaches like Norman Smiley and Matt Bloom in their ear on the regular, the issue becomes that a fair amount of the veterans (outside of Jericho, Pac, Dustin, and Cody - who you have to wonder how much correction they're actually providing) have some of those same bad habits.  Yes, there are guys like Daniels and Kazarian who, themselves, teach and would be in a position to offer correction, but when some of the other vets like Kenny, the Bucks, and even Moxley have some of those same bad habits you'd want to curtail, it's a lot more difficult to get the message to sink in.

[Troy Brown]

53 minutes ago, The LBC said:

@Troy Brown Going even a step further, it's been the retired talent that have since gone into training that I'm a much more devoted follower of - and they have a very similar message to Cornette, they're just better at presenting their arguments, but they're just as honest.  I've been watching a lot of Hannibal TV of late because some of these guys who got that last days of the territories break-in to the business, and are quite savvy individuals, and are now trainers like Al Snow, Shane Douglas, and Lance Storm have been providing some really sound insight.  Al glorifies the "old school" to a point where I could see some people being critical of him, but he presents an extremely logical case for all his positions.  And Shane provides a very business-aware/savvy critique and it's actually him that I gained the perspective that both sides (WWE and AEW) really do seem to be lacking for the right kind of veteran leadership in the locker room.  He talked about how when he was on the rise but still young, he was quick to recognize and correct bad habits he had that kept from hooking a more expansive audience, quite literally, because he was afraid of what the reaction of the vets in the locker room (like Bill Watts) would be if he didn't.  In AEW's case, and it's also prevalent in WWE with guys that come up from NXT to the main roster because they no longer have the PC veteran coaches like Norman Smiley and Matt Bloom in their ear on the regular, the issue becomes that a fair amount of the veterans (outside of Jericho, Pac, Dustin, and Cody - who you have to wonder how much correction they're actually providing) have some of those same bad habits.  Yes, there are guys like Daniels and Kazarian who, themselves, teach and would be in a position to offer correction, but when some of the other vets like Kenny, the Bucks, and even Moxley have some of those same bad habits you'd want to curtail, it's a lot more difficult to get the message to sink in.

Sure, I occasionally agree with some of Cornette's points, but I also think he's super out of touch with what the wrestling industry a) currently provides to people and b) what the wrestling demographic as a whole wants it to provide. There are some people who want everything to be like Powerrr but that's a small minority and I think the people who are wrong in this instance are those who don't think there's a place for Marko Stunt and a place for Powerrr on the same show. I hate Private Party, I hate Stunt, I don't care a ton for LAX, I don't even much get off on the Young Bucks but I like that they're all on the same show and that there's a variety of things to expect... which is why AEW is my preferred product. I, again, also dislike the joshi but I like that there's a variety. Hell, there's really no one on the roster that I really love nor do I think they're doing a superb job of building many guys up but the thing that jumps off the screen for me is that it doesn't feel overly produced and it feels like I'm watching an actual direction and personal creativity with the talent. For someone like Cornette to crap on something as much as he does and refuse to believe that it's good for the business, it's just such a god awful take. 

Outlaw mudshow cosplay wrestling is the evolution of pro wrestling thanks to god awful WWE programming. A good friend of mine once said "if your time to you is worth savin then you better start swimmin or you'll sink like a stone for the times, they are a changin!"

I mean, I agree with your post. In my personal preference, I like the Cody style. I think it's the best in-ring product going currently and it's obviously a very specific more old-school style product. I like the PWG style as well so again, speaking about american promotions, AEW is an easy choice for me. I also agree with you that the best wrestlers in the world are currently killing themselves in NJPW but the reason I am interested in wrestling again, the reason I am even interested in training to wrestle again is because of the personal freedoms and creativity on the independent scene that Cornette craps on so frequently. Sorry bud, people got into wrestling because in their imagination, anything could happen. I don't want it to ever be in a box again. 

[Troy Brown]

8 hours ago, PARROTHEAD said:

How so? WWE has been rendered to 2-2.5 million viewers. 50% of those are over 50. Over 80% are over 30. 20 years ago the avg age of a viewer was 24.  NXT had an avg age of 54 mentioned by Metzer a couple weeks back.

A 5'2 and 5'7 guy in HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE matches along with whatever Uumpa Lumpas NXT had for their title matches along with some butch chicks might be to your liking. But for the MASS MAJORITY that had been wrestling fans through the years. Its not flippin the bill and not drawing new viewers.

But hey. You be happy with WWE catering to the type of fan you are while everyone else gets ignored. Why care about anyone else when youre getting what you want.

lol sure, independent wrestling and japanese wrestling has never been more popular but keep raving about torrie wilson being the ultimate anchor of pro wrestling

[Troy Brown]

8 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

The plan was to try for DoN II and if we miss out again try for All Out II. I was in Chicago a few weeks prior to All Out and can definitely see what you mean. I'm not optimistic of our chances for either tbh. That's awesome that you went to both. DoN was the best show of the year imo.

I am sure tickets will be much easier to come by this time around given the product isn't as new, and there really wasn't many seats to complain about in the MGM arena whereas I had god awful seats in the Sears Centre.

Roundtrip flights to Vegas from pdx are also only like 100 dollars so it was a better experience for me in general. 

[PARROTHEAD]

1 hour ago, Troy Brown said:

lol sure, independent wrestling and japanese wrestling has never been more popular but keep raving about torrie wilson being the ultimate anchor of pro wrestling

Wasnt talking about Indys. Or do you want me to point out the couple dozen wrestling promotions like WrestleCircus thats gone under the past few years? Or ones like ROH that are struggling to break even. Quick Google you find an entire list.

MLW and NWA are catching up to WWE, as much as WWE is falling back to them. NWA and NJPW are more my style atm. And its bringing them success. Which fits my point and that WWE has been constantly losing viewers for a decade. And instead of trying to reach mass appeal. They cater to a small handful.

 

[Deadpulse]

6 hours ago, PARROTHEAD said:

MLW and NWA are catching up to WWE

[Mox]

8 hours ago, Troy Brown said:

I am sure tickets will be much easier to come by this time around given the product isn't as new, and there really wasn't many seats to complain about in the MGM arena whereas I had god awful seats in the Sears Centre.

Roundtrip flights to Vegas from pdx are also only like 100 dollars so it was a better experience for me in general. 

Hoping that's the case. Especially if we get Mox vs Jericho for the title which some think will happen.

[PARROTHEAD]

Impact. lol

Just a joking around mocking goof off show. Yet all the tag teams they created for it, are all better gimmicks than near anything going. Hard Workers is a goldmine of a gimmick.

 

[Texansfan713]

dana brooke and batista acting real weird on twitter

[PARROTHEAD]

10k bottles sold. Thats crazy. I was going to order one but he said "Limited amount" on the show. I figured the first 1000 orders got one.

Just 23 bucks, so Im ordering now.

[Troy Brown]

is it possible that jericho is actually underrated in terms of all time performers

[bcb1213]

On 11/26/2019 at 4:02 PM, PARROTHEAD said:

How so? WWE has been rendered to 2-2.5 million viewers. 50% of those are over 50. Over 80% are over 30. 20 years ago the avg age of a viewer was 24.  NXT had an avg age of 54 mentioned by Metzer a couple weeks back.

A 5'2 and 5'7 guy in HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE matches along with whatever Uumpa Lumpas NXT had for their title matches along with some butch chicks might be to your liking. But for the MASS MAJORITY that had been wrestling fans through the years. Its not flippin the bill and not drawing new viewers.

But hey. You be happy with WWE catering to the type of fan you are while everyone else gets ignored. Why care about anyone else when youre getting what you want.

So you're anti not big dudes. I mean Jericho, Bret hart, Kurt angle. Eddie Guerrero 

 

None of these dudes were over six feet tall should they have never been Champs 

[Mox]

15 hours ago, Troy Brown said:

is it possible that jericho is actually underrated in terms of all time performers

Arguably the GOAT in terms of longevity but his peak wasn't on that level and I don't think he could've reached that top tier.

[PARROTHEAD]

56 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

So you're anti not big dudes. I mean Jericho, Bret hart, Kurt angle. Eddie Guerrero 

 

None of these dudes were over six feet tall should they have never been Champs 

 Last 2 weeks Raw hit the 2nd all time lowest watched both weeks. What exactly are you defending?

Eddie spent a decade as a cruiser in a cruiser division building for his moment. Jericho spent years in a Cruiser division before being brought up for more. WCW surpassed WWF while Bret was getting top billing.

You build for special moments to where you can push for such to happen. Last done truly right was DBs.  Kofis wasnt bad.

To bring a 5'7 Ricochet up and "Oh this guy does flippity doos, lets toss him in all these title matches to show him off." They need the Cruiser Division back, pack it full of these guys all going for the belt like WCW did. And let big guys brawl for the HEAVYWEIGHT belt. And the occasion comes up, then you bring the guy up like they did with Jericho or Eddie.