2020 Draft Talk

[perrynoid]

3 hours ago, VikeManDan said:

Additionally, any QB we draft will most likely be learning behind Cousins. 

But is that good, or bad?

[wcblack34]

34 minutes ago, perrynoid said:

But is that good, or bad?

Learning behind Cousins is fine. Learning FROM Cousins is bad. 

[Torchezim]

5 hours ago, JDBrocks said:

@Torchezim, sort of a double standard going on about mortgaging everything for Lawrence when he’s had a subpar season, don’t you think?

A subpar season so far after dismantling an Alabama defense in the National Championship while only being a rookie the season before? Not really comparable.

I take it you’re joking.

 Cause that question doesn’t really translate from this thread into my support for Lawrence; it isn’t even close, don’t you think?

Edited October 6, 2019 by Torchezim

[JDBrocks]

8 hours ago, Torchezim said:

A subpar season so far after dismantling an Alabama defense in the National Championship while only being a rookie the season before? Not really comparable.

I take it you’re joking.

 Cause that question doesn’t really translate from this thread into my support for Lawrence; it isn’t even close, don’t you think?

I’m not joking. You are basically dismissing Love for losing to a vastly superior team while making plays that his receivers should have helped him on, regardless of past performance, while giving Lawrence a pass for continuing struggles against inferior opponents because of his past performance. Double standard.

[Torchezim]

2 hours ago, JDBrocks said:

I’m not joking. You are basically dismissing Love for losing to a vastly superior team while making plays that his receivers should have helped him on, regardless of past performance, while giving Lawrence a pass for continuing struggles against inferior opponents because of his past performance. Double standard.

Again....

Firstly, My goodness so many users here don’t read anything.  Makes me regret even making an account here sometimes. This isn’t football talk/debate; this is telling me what I said so it suits your wrong argument in the first place. 

I literally said in the post that you’re responding to that his game against a high ranked team didn’t help his stock imo.

But also...

Wait...

again...

There it is. Just had to read a bit.

I won’t hold it against him. Could have been just an outlier of a bad game.  

How do you give yourself a signature on here? I’d very much like mine to say, “Read First Please”. 

[JDBrocks]

59 minutes ago, Torchezim said:

Again....

Firstly, My goodness so many users here don’t read anything.  Makes me regret even making an account here sometimes. This isn’t football talk/debate; this is telling me what I said so it suits your wrong argument in the first place. 

I literally said in the post that you’re responding to that his game against a high ranked team didn’t help his stock imo.

But also...

Wait...

again...

There it is. Just had to read a bit.

I won’t hold it against him. Could have been just an outlier of a bad game.  

How do you give yourself a signature on here? I’d very much like mine to say, “Read First Please”. 

I did, in fact, read. You said Love was bad even with the context of his team being overmatched. Words matter. 

Not sure why you take it so personally. I asked a legitimate question. One talented player had some really good plays, some not very good plays against a great team and you said he looked bad even given the context of the game itself. Another talented player has struggled all year against inferior teams, and you wanted to mortgage an entire draft or multiple first rounders for him. Why isn’t that a double standard when evaluating prospects? My question was more about why you haven’t changed your stance on Lawrence even a little bit even with mounting evidence that he isn’t a perfect prospect.

Im not suggesting that Love is a better prospect than Lawrence at all, btw. If you stepped back and thought about the question for a minute before assuming that I’m trying to dismiss your stance, you might have realized I was actually trying to have a conversation.

[vikesfan89]

I was always going to ask if Lawrence was living up to the hype but I just assumed he was

[Torchezim]

5 hours ago, JDBrocks said:

I did, in fact, read. You said Love was bad even with the context of his team being overmatched. Words matter. 

Not sure why you take it so personally. I asked a legitimate question. One talented player had some really good plays, some not very good plays against a great team and you said he looked bad even given the context of the game itself. Another talented player has struggled all year against inferior teams, and you wanted to mortgage an entire draft or multiple first rounders for him. Why isn’t that a double standard when evaluating prospects? My question was more about why you haven’t changed your stance on Lawrence even a little bit even with mounting evidence that he isn’t a perfect prospect.

Im not suggesting that Love is a better prospect than Lawrence at all, btw. If you stepped back and thought about the question for a minute before assuming that I’m trying to dismiss your stance, you might have realized I was actually trying to have a conversation.

Words do matter. I added in the fact that LSU was superior for the simple fact that I didn’t want other users to think that I wasn’t aware of it — that a I needed to be informed of it. 

   If that would have been a rebuttle, it would have just annoyed me and extinguished any desire that I had beforehand to be active on the forum. I also said that though LSU was superior, Love should have been able to do a bit more against them than he did; whether it was in a losing effort or not.  Even if his receiver had their faults, he still didn’t do much at all. If he is going to be discussed as being as early a pick as the first round, you’d at least expect him to put forth something noteworthy.  

As for reading, It happens far too often on here. People not reading before speaking. 

 

You didn’t ask any question though. Anyone in the world would have taken it as a rhetorical statement.

I have also already explained my stance on Lawrence’s current play.l in other threads: I think he underperforming rather than struggling   He has shown his ability to manhandle the best defenses in the nation; why he is playing down to his competition now makes me believe that he is listening to the hype around him and taking games against ACC teams (who for the most part aren’t that great) easily. Because, well, Clemson as a whole is so vastly more talented than those teams, he is probably just coasting  until the playoffs. That happens.

Had he not played so tremendously great last year, I would not be so high on him and I would not have that stance.

I am giving Lawrence a break based on who he has played, defeated, and the top competition that he has excelled against. Love doesn’t really have that resume.  

Context is key also, I agree. I said I won’t hold the game against him but it did him no favors. He didn’t look good though. Not against teams that Lawrence and Clemson has soundly defeated. Love is really talented, but not even in the atmosphere of Lawrence imo.  

So yes, I’d be willing to mortgage draft picks for him.

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Torchezim

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Torchezim said:

Words do matter. I added in the fact that LSU was superior for the simple fact that I didn’t want other users to think that I wasn’t aware of it — that a I needed to be informed of it. 

   If that would have been a rebuttle, it would have just annoyed me and extinguished any desire that I had beforehand to be active on the forum. I also said that though LSU was superior, Love should have been able to do a bit more against them than he did; whether it was in a losing effort or not.  Even if his receiver had their faults, he still didn’t do much at all. If he is going to be discussed as being as early a pick as the first round, you’d at least expect him to put forth something noteworthy.  

As for reading, It happens far too often on here. People not reading before speaking. 

 

You didn’t ask any question though. Anyone in the world would have taken it as a rhetorical statement.

I have also already explained my stance on Lawrence’s current play.l in other threads: I think he underperforming rather than struggling   He has shown his ability to manhandle the best defenses in the nation; why he is playing down to his competition now makes me believe that he is listening to the hype around him and taking games against ACC teams (who for the most part aren’t that great) easily. Because, well, Clemson as a whole is so vastly more talented than those teams, he is probably just coasting  until the playoffs. That happens.

Had he not played so tremendously great last year, I would not be so high on him and I would not have that stance.

I am giving Lawrence a break based on who he has played, defeated, and the top competition that he has excelled against. Love doesn’t really have that resume.  

Context is key also, I agree. I said I won’t hold the game against him but it did him no favors. He didn’t look good though. Not against teams that Lawrence and Clemson has soundly defeated. Love is really talented, but not even in the atmosphere of Lawrence imo.  

So yes, I’d be willing to mortgage draft picks for him.

 

So, my wonderment is, which is the "real" Lawrence?  The one who set the college football world on fire, and every NFL GM's heart fluttering; or the one who seems to be coming back down to earth this season?  If he continues to struggle this year...and yes, I would call it struggling...then maybe he needs to play his full eligibility and not come out early.  Let there be a little bit more seasoning added to this southern fried catfish.

[swede700]

21 hours ago, Torchezim said:

Again....

Firstly, My goodness so many users here don’t read anything.  Makes me regret even making an account here sometimes. This isn’t football talk/debate; this is telling me what I said so it suits your wrong argument in the first place. 

I literally said in the post that you’re responding to that his game against a high ranked team didn’t help his stock imo.

But also...

Wait...

again...

There it is. Just had to read a bit.

I won’t hold it against him. Could have been just an outlier of a bad game.  

How do you give yourself a signature on here? I’d very much like mine to say, “Read First Please”. 

You can reply to his post without being a jack*** about it.  It's fine if you disagree, but it's highly unnecessary to be demeaning in the process.  

Edited October 7, 2019 by swede700

[Torchezim]

32 minutes ago, swede700 said:

You can reply to his post without being a jack*** about it.  It's fine if you disagree, but it's highly unnecessary to be demeaning in the process.  

I didn’t create an account on here to purposely be a “jack***”, but when users continually ignore what I actually said to suit their own points it calls for a blunt response.  

It isn’t about disagreeing. It’s about misrepresenting one’s statements in an effort to make them look silly so you don’t.  
 

It isn’t like this is the first time this has happened.  I have been active on here for 2 weeks about, and it has happened at least 10 times already.  Debating, agreeing, disagreeing is fine; everyone has their own opinions. However, ignoring context of what someone said and questioning a non existent point that they didn’t make to begin with, whether in person or over the internet, can be highly irritating. 

And if you don’t like the way I respond to someone who does that then ignore me, I guess.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Torchezim

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Torchezim said:

I didn’t create an account on here to purposely be a “jack***”, but when users continually ignore what I actually said to suit their own points it calls for a blunt response.  

It isn’t about disagreeing. It’s about misrepresenting one’s statements in an effort to make them look silly so you don’t.  
 

It isn’t like this is the first time this has happened.  I have been active on here for 2 weeks about, and it has happened at least 10 times already.  Debating, agreeing, disagreeing is fine; everyone has their own opinions. However, ignoring context of what someone said and questioning a non existent point that they didn’t make to begin with, whether in person or over the internet, can be highly irritating. 

And if you don’t like the way I respond to someone who does that then ignore me, I guess.

I guess I am missing the context in your posts.  I read you making absolute statements as if no one could possibly disagree.  Maybe I am to dense in  the head to get what you're really trying to say.

[Torchezim]

34 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said:

I guess I am missing the context in your posts.  I read you making absolute statements as if no one could possibly disagree.  Maybe I am to dense in  the head to get what you're really trying to say.

I mean if you take it as absolute that’s on you.  I never implied that everything I said was gospel and couldn’t be questioned. Maybe I’m too firm in my statements? I say it with confidence but other than that, I don’t see it.

If that is the case, then that will just be what it is. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Torchezim

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Torchezim said:

I mean if you take it as absolute that’s on you.  I never implied that everything I said was gospel and couldn’t be questioned. Maybe I’m too firm in my statements? I say it with confidence but other than that, I don’t see it.

If that is the case, then that will just be what it is. 

I am going to stick with trying to dialog with you, as I think you have good thoughts.  I am not sure you communicate them always in a manner that allows you to be heard.  For example, in the above response the first two sentences come across as defensive and blaming the reader for the communication.  It seems to make your third and fourth sentence disappear.  You wonder in the third sentence about whether or not you are to firm.  I think that's a great question to ask!  Followed on by your fourth sentence, which seems to be some self awareness and blindness.  Again, great things to be thinking about for self growth.  But then, in your last sentence, you seem to be communicating you don't really care about how you come across.

I am not writing as one who is an expert communicator.  Lot's of people on this board have commented when I haven't been my best. Yet, from each instance, I've learned something.  I've gone on to reflect on, not so much what I said, as how I said it.

I'm not trying to criticize you.  Again, you have good thoughts.  I am saying that I think you can communicate them better.  For what it's worth.

[Torchezim]

1 hour ago, Virginia Viking said:

I am going to stick with trying to dialog with you, as I think you have good thoughts.  I am not sure you communicate them always in a manner that allows you to be heard.  For example, in the above response the first two sentences come across as defensive and blaming the reader for the communication.  It seems to make your third and fourth sentence disappear.  You wonder in the third sentence about whether or not you are to firm.  I think that's a great question to ask!  Followed on by your fourth sentence, which seems to be some self awareness and blindness.  Again, great things to be thinking about for self growth.  But then, in your last sentence, you seem to be communicating you don't really care about how you come across.

I am not writing as one who is an expert communicator.  Lot's of people on this board have commented when I haven't been my best. Yet, from each instance, I've learned something.  I've gone on to reflect on, not so much what I said, as how I said it.

I'm not trying to criticize you.  Again, you have good thoughts.  I am saying that I think you can communicate them better.  For what it's worth.

We should PM these concerns.  
 

I can understand where you’re coming from but I do not require a class on sentence structure. Lol.   If you believe that I do, then that can be a discussion away fr the football and away from other users.  I will explain to you that while I appreciate your help in that capacity, it is unnecessary.