swede700 Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 47 minutes ago, Torchezim said: True. He can can sit behind Cousins and learn exactly what not to do during a football game. That's one way to look at it. Not exactly the way I look at it, but hey, whatever, both accomplish the same goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 On 9/30/2019 at 5:35 PM, Torchezim said: I understand. I would just rather take a chance on a player like Lawrence. We aren't good at the guessing game of mid round QBs. Let's avoid that huh? Exactly right. Every time you guess and miss on a quarterback, it sets your franchise back for another 5 years. If you want a Rolls-Royce, you are probably going to have to pay a Rolls-Royce price for it. You can buy a Cadillac and try to convince yourself that it's just as good, but you are only kidding yourself. When it comes to quarterbacks, sure, sometimes you can get lucky and pick up a guy like Russell Wilson in the third round or a Tom Brady in the 5th round, but if I were the owner of the Vikings I wouldn't be willing to put my billion dollar investment in the hands of luck. I'm getting to the point where I really think this year is the last chance we're going to have to go all the way in the Spielman/Zimmer era. If they can turn it around and right the ship, that's great. If not, it might be time to plan for a garage sale and start trading every aging player who is worth anything and accumulating draft picks for 2021. I would really be willing to do that because I don't like our chances if we continue doing what we've been doing for the last 40+ years, hoping to get lucky. We have tried just about everything else and it hasn't worked. It's time to take some drastic measures, IMO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torchezim Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 24 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said: Exactly right. Every time you guess and miss on a quarterback, it sets your franchise back for another 5 years. If you want a Rolls-Royce, you are probably going to have to pay a Rolls-Royce price for it. You can buy a Cadillac and try to convince yourself that it's just as good, but you are only kidding yourself. When it comes to quarterbacks, sure, sometimes you can get lucky and pick up a guy like Russell Wilson in the third round or a Tom Brady in the 5th round, but if I were the owner of the Vikings I wouldn't be willing to put my billion dollar investment in the hands of luck. I'm getting to the point where I really think this year is the last chance we're going to have to go all the way in the Spielman/Zimmer era. If they can turn it around and right the ship, that's great. If not, it might be time to plan for a garage sale and start trading every aging player who is worth anything and accumulating draft picks for 2021. I would really be willing to do that because I don't like our chances if we continue doing what we've been doing for the last 40+ years, hoping to get lucky. We have tried just about everything else and it hasn't worked. It's time to take some drastic measures, IMO. Exactly. I don’t understand why people are so against that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Love V Burrows Two QBs who’s stocks are pointing up. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Torchezim said: Exactly. I don’t understand why people are so against that. Oh, I completely understand why people are against it. It is hard to sacrifice the present for the future. It is the difference in mentality between people living with credit card debt into their late 50s and people that become financially independent and retire early at that same age. I used to be more patient for a long term plan but by now I am not sure that I'll be around to see the end of a long rebuild so it is hard not to want to push all in for the current year. I mean, I am not so extreme with that desire that I would trade away a first and fourth for a Sam Bradford, but I understand the temptation more and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 22 hours ago, sparkyjoe1 said: I want nothing to do with Lawrence unless he cuts his hair... You just can't be a good QB unless you have a good haircut, that's what's most important. It's the one thing that all great QBs have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDakViking Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Torchezim said: Exactly. I don’t understand why people are so against that. I guess one argument would be that by trying to improve now, you are further laying a solid foundation for a new QB to slide into, rather than start from scratch. However, if we finish 8-8 this years, and only improve to say 9-7 or 10-6 next year, then we are even further from the spots you need to get a top flight QB prospect. Not everyone can get lucky and have Lamar Jackson fall to them like the Ravens or Russell Wilson to the Seahawks in the 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, NoDakViking said: I guess one argument would be that by trying to improve now, you are further laying a solid foundation for a new QB to slide into, rather than start from scratch. However, if we finish 8-8 this years, and only improve to say 9-7 or 10-6 next year, then we are even further from the spots you need to get a top flight QB prospect. Not everyone can get lucky and have Lamar Jackson fall to them like the Ravens or Russell Wilson to the Seahawks in the 3rd. That is a good argument too, especially as it related to the offensive line. The team needs to get the offensive line right in order to give the new QB the best chance to develop nicely. IMO, the team should continually be looking for a QB and in the meantime they ought to focus on building an offensive line. Spending lots of money on WRs when you don't have an offensive line that can pass protect is foolishness. Given good unmolested time in the pocket a mediocre NFL QB should be able to pick apart an NFL defense with mediocre WRs. Kirk Cousins is easily in the category of QB that can do that but he lacks the confidence that he'll have the time he needs. He can't sense pressure therefore he also doesn't know when there isn't pressure. Once he loses trust in having a certain amount of time in the pocket things go bad. Ideally, the team will find a QB in the draft that can do the things Kirk does well just as good that can also sense pressure. Even with that, it is desirable to have a strong offensive line because only the truly good NFL QBs can be consistently successful with frequent pressure in under three seconds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, NoDakViking said: I guess one argument would be that by trying to improve now, you are further laying a solid foundation for a new QB to slide into, rather than start from scratch. However, if we finish 8-8 this years, and only improve to say 9-7 or 10-6 next year, then we are even further from the spots you need to get a top flight QB prospect. Not everyone can get lucky and have Lamar Jackson fall to them like the Ravens or Russell Wilson to the Seahawks in the 3rd. It’s part luck and part mismanagement. The Vikes could have had Lamar Jackson fall to them if they chose not to sign a free agent QB and/or draft a dime CB. It seems like these “misses” happen for a reason. The Vikes chose to play the safe route with an established QB in Cousins and before him, Bradford. These decisions resulted in not acquiring QBs via the draft. They further chose to build around the defense, by taking yet another CB when maybe a QB would have been the right pick, despite the 3 year “commitment” to Cousins. I’m not sold on Jackson yet and he didn’t look the part as a passer his rookie season. However, he’s made tremendous strides in year 2, there’s no denying that. Edited October 2, 2019 by vikingsrule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Torchezim said: Exactly. I don’t understand why people are so against that. I'm not against being aggressive...but, I don't want the team to be stupidly aggressive! There just may not be a Rolls Royce in the draft. What else might be on the lot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 Why is it, all of a sudden, that people think Lamar Jackson is now some diamond in the rough? What, because he's not the worst quarterback in the league? Let's settle down before we start proclaiming him as the greatest steal in the draft in the last 5 years. The 2 teams he beat are 2 of the worst teams in the entire NFL and he just got blown out at home by the Browns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Uncle Buck said: All the beautiful girls have long hair as well! Then again must say Natalie looks freaking hot with the shaved head, probably the most beautiful shaved head look on the face of the planet. Avril tried it but just a little bit, so not the full effect but still worked... PS Never judge a QB by only his hair cut. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDakViking Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Cearbhall said: That is a good argument too, especially as it related to the offensive line. The team needs to get the offensive line right in order to give the new QB the best chance to develop nicely. IMO, the team should continually be looking for a QB and in the meantime they ought to focus on building an offensive line. Spending lots of money on WRs when you don't have an offensive line that can pass protect is foolishness. Given good unmolested time in the pocket a mediocre NFL QB should be able to pick apart an NFL defense with mediocre WRs. Kirk Cousins is easily in the category of QB that can do that but he lacks the confidence that he'll have the time he needs. He can't sense pressure therefore he also doesn't know when there isn't pressure. Once he loses trust in having a certain amount of time in the pocket things go bad. Ideally, the team will find a QB in the draft that can do the things Kirk does well just as good that can also sense pressure. Even with that, it is desirable to have a strong offensive line because only the truly good NFL QBs can be consistently successful with frequent pressure in under three seconds. I agree. There is a higher need now for a mobile QB with how athletic the defenses are. I called it this past offseason that the Vikings will draft a QB if they miss the playoffs again in 2019. Let them sit for a year and let Cousins audition for his next contract somewhere else. Who knows what consequences that would entail for Zimmer and/or Spielman. I think the 3 options would be Fromm (assuming he declares), Love (same), or Hurts. Fromm I think is a lot like Cousins. Accurate, cerebral, not a huge arm, and probably has a limited ceiling. He works best as a distributor to the weapons around him and would rely heavily upon a good running game and defense, which he has a Georgia already. Love would probably have the most to gain by redshirting his first year but he is a bit more athletic and has a stronger arm than Fromm. He needs to work on decision making. Hurts I think would be most likely to fall due to his lack of really polished passing ability. But he is really seen as a leader and high character guy which Spielman is big on. But his stock is rising being in OKs passing offense and can move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 6 hours ago, Virginia Viking said: I'm not against being aggressive...but, I don't want the team to be stupidly aggressive! There just may not be a Rolls Royce in the draft. What else might be on the lot? I agree with you about not just being aggressive for the sake of being aggressive. If there isn't a "Rolls-Royce" in the draft, I agree, it would be crazy to go too crazy on throwing draft picks at anyone. My main idea was that many people seem to think Trevor Lawrence is about as close to a true Rolls-Royce as any prospect they have ever seen. I can't claim that because I've never seen the guy take a snap. If he is that promising of a prospect, however, I'm at the point where I'd be willing to get my checkbook out and pay whatever price it took to get him. If there isn't someone like that in the draft, I agree with you that it pays to not be overly aggressive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 On 10/2/2019 at 1:27 PM, SemperFeist said: Love V Burrows Two QBs who’s stocks are pointing up. I'll have to record that game since I'll be working all day. I want to learn more about both QBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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