JDBrocks Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) This play ended in a touchdown, but not to that guy (video should start at that play at 7:33): Edited October 30, 2019 by JDBrocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 13 hours ago, Klomp said: If we can get his cap hit lowered to even around $20M, I'd strongly consider extending him. I don't want to continue shuffling through QBs. I'd be fine with that. But we know that's not the going rate on the open market for a QB. And if there's anything we do know about Cousins, he knows how to leverage the market to his benefit. I don't see any way that his next deal isn't north of $30M. If he were to continue his current level of play, or even 85%, I'd say he'd probably justify that kind of contract. I don't yet have faith that he would be able to maintain a level of play commensurate with that salary. I think we'll still get flashes of greatness coupled with flashes of WTF??? But believe me, I hope hope hope he makes me eat my words. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) The Patriots lucked out with a Michigan QB...other than him, the Wolverines haven't produced a decent NFL QB other than Jim Harbaugh himself. They've produced lots of QBs, just not any good ones. They are, though, probably the leader in producing NFL backups, which is probably the top upside of Shea Patterson. At this point, I don't even think he's draftable. Edited October 30, 2019 by swede700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 20 hours ago, Klomp said: If we can get his cap hit lowered to even around $20M, I'd strongly consider extending him. I don't want to continue shuffling through QBs. That's not even remotely realistic. That would make him the 19th highest paid QB. He's not "settling" for that kind of paycut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, CWood21 said: That's not even remotely realistic. That would make him the 19th highest paid QB. He's not "settling" for that kind of paycut. I agree with you (with a Packers fan, that doesn't happen all that often ). It's a completely ridiculous notion to think that he'd get anything less than what he's currently making. If anything, we'd have to hope that he'd be satisfied with the same level of pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, swede700 said: I agree with you (with a Packers fan, that doesn't happen all that often ). It's a completely ridiculous notion to think that he'd get anything less than what he's currently making. If anything, we'd have to hope that he'd be satisfied with the same level of pay. There are two ways it could go. He bombs hard in the next 1.5 seasons he'll have to go the Ryan Tannehill route of taking a back up job with hopes of improving his stock for his next deal. He'll be signed as a starter in the league. It is hard to imagine that being for less than $25M per year. It is a lot more likely it would, as you suggest, nothing less than what he's currently making. At this point, the first of those two options would be a major upset. But even if it happens, he wouldn't be signing with the Vikings in that scenario so there would be no hope of the Vikings having him on that contract. That said, in the favored option the cap hit could conceivably be lowered to $20M in the first year of the deal. It is cap hit that Klomp was talking about. It would mean heavier back loading than the Vikings like to do on their contracts, but certainly not out of the realm of reason. Edited October 30, 2019 by Cearbhall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: That said, in the favored option the cap hit could conceivably be lowered to $20M in the first year of the deal. It is cap hit that Klomp was talking about. It would mean heavier back loading than the Vikings like to do on their contracts, but certainly not out of the realm of reason. That certainly is not out of the realm of reason, but I don't think it would be a wise decision, nor realistic, considering the only QBs in that range right now are 2 guys on their 5th year options. Plus, there aren't many QBs that are going to take that kind of hit in the first year of their deal (although Kirk did this time because the money was fully guaranteed). Middle years of a deal, maybe, but not in the first, because they want the cash as early as possible. Only if the Vikings guaranteed his contract again would I think he'd consider taking a lower cap hit in the first year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, swede700 said: That certainly is not out of the realm of reason, but I don't think it would be a wise decision, nor realistic, considering the only QBs in that range right now are 2 guys on their 5th year options. Plus, there aren't many QBs that are going to take that kind of hit in the first year of their deal (although Kirk did this time because the money was fully guaranteed). Middle years of a deal, maybe, but not in the first, because they want the cash as early as possible. Only if the Vikings guaranteed his contract again would I think he'd consider taking a lower cap hit in the first year. You are confusing cap hit with cash flow. The common way of reducing the cap hit in the first year would be by giving most of the first year salary as a signing bonus. That increases the speed of the cash flow to the player. A player takes no hit at all. Their main focus is on cash flow and guarantees. It is easy for them to get that while the team controls the cap hit in a given year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 Of course I'm not the expert in those rules (as my name is not Brz and there's a reason why I never went past Calc 1), but if that works, then it's fine, I'm just not confident in that actually happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, swede700 said: Of course I'm not the expert in those rules (as my name is not Brz and there's a reason why I never went past Calc 1), but if that works, then it's fine, I'm just not confident in that actually happening. Sadly, I took plenty math courses beyond calc 1 as one of my undergraduate degrees was a math degree. I believe you are right to not be confident in it happening. However, it is not "a completely ridiculous notion". I wouldn't agree with a Packer fan that says, "That's not even remotely realistic". Though, that might have something to do with my aversion to agreeing with a Packer fan. If the Vikings keep Cousins on as a starter it seems likely that he would get something over $30M per year on a five year deal. That would likely have ~$90M guaranteed by way of signing bonus and fully guaranteed salaries in the first three years. Assuming he gets $30M per year with a completely flat payout of $30M per year on a five year deal $28M of could be paid out as signing bonus, with the rest guaranteed salaries in the first three years paid out at $2M, $30M, and $30M he would then have a cap hit in year one of $7.6M while his guaranteed cash flow in each of the first three years was $30M. It is that easy to get his cap number below $10M in the first year with the player taking no hit or making no sacrifices early. While easy enough to do, the reason that I don't see it as likely is based on the Vikings track record. They have not generally structured contracts like that. It is more likely on a five year deal they would structure it in a way that involves cap hits of something like $28M, $29M, $30M, $31M and $32M in each of the respective years of the deal. Edited October 30, 2019 by Cearbhall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 8 hours ago, swede700 said: The Patriots lucked out with a Michigan QB...other than him, the Wolverines haven't produced a decent NFL QB other than Jim Harbaugh himself. They've produced lots of QBs, just not any good ones. They are, though, probably the leader in producing NFL backups, which is probably the top upside of Shea Patterson. At this point, I don't even think he's draftable. Here are some of your other options in the middle of the draft, and some of these guys will not be drafted, probably the bottom three will not. Deondre Francois Hampton RS Steven Montez Colorado RS Nathan Stanley Iowa Khalil Tate Arizona Anthony Gordon Washington State RS Bryce Perkins Virginia Brian Lewerke Michigan State RS Elijah Sindelar Purdue RS Justin McMillan Tulane Ryan Willis Virginia Tech RS Jake Bentley South Carolina Tommy Stevens Miss State RS Brandon Wimbush UCF Alex Hornibrook Florida State RS So to me Shea Patterson in the late 3rd to 5th round range would be a good value and he is better than ever quarterback listed here. Sure one can get some bad clips of him, you can do that to almost any QB if you really want to. He is athletic, he has played under center, he is not pass happy and needs 40 attempts to succeed and is fine if the team rushes the football. Played very good in awful weather against Notre Dame, the Notre Dame QBs cannot say that, Jake Fromm cannot either, he was terrible in the rain a few weeks back. He can get away from pressure with his athletic ability and I think is willing to be a backup and develop without causing a problem. Rather have Stanley who is a statue in the pocket, Montez who is terribly inaccurate, Francois who is a pretty big disappointment and has off the field issues and Tate who I would not mind but I do question his accuracy and release a lot, not to mention his ability to stay healthy. So outside of Tua, Herbret, Burrow, Eason, Love, Fromm and maybe Hurts there is not a ton of options in the later rounds possibly. And with how the CBs have looked this year and the need for DT talent and OT/OG talent drafting a QB 1st or 2nd round does not make a bunch of sense honestly. Patterson could be a nice steal late and would not cost much and if he does not turn out no big deal. Not sure they would be willing to gamble on a great arm talent in Eason in the 1st round when the team is built to win now. To say Patterson will not be drafted is a little ridiculous I feel, sure he has looked bad at times but is playing better and knows how to take a back seat at times to the run game and play under center and handle the football. Considering the 2nd tear options at QB in the draft he is easily one of the better ones. And if this is animated gif time sure one can find some good ones as well of him getting out of the pocket and making good throws on the move. Watching games is a little better than this though, still the kid has a great release and can get rid of the football quickly and handle pressure ahead of him and still make plays. In a zone run game that will help a lot and they actually might be able to run some boot leg action unlike with Kirk who is limited in terms of his speed and the quickness of his release on the move. So again yeah not 1st rounder but anywhere from late 3rd or the 5th round I would be more than fine taking him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) Shea Patterson is a terrible decision maker with the football. Pass. Edited October 31, 2019 by JDBrocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Also what are you talking about with the “bootleg action unlike Kirk”? That’s literally been his signature play this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 20 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: Also what are you talking about with the “bootleg action unlike Kirk”? That’s literally been his signature play this year. Don’t start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 14 hours ago, Ozzy said: Here are some of your other options in the middle of the draft, and some of these guys will not be drafted, probably the bottom three will not. Deondre Francois Hampton RS Steven Montez Colorado RS Nathan Stanley Iowa Khalil Tate Arizona Anthony Gordon Washington State RS Bryce Perkins Virginia Brian Lewerke Michigan State RS Elijah Sindelar Purdue RS Justin McMillan Tulane Ryan Willis Virginia Tech RS Jake Bentley South Carolina Tommy Stevens Miss State RS Brandon Wimbush UCF Alex Hornibrook Florida State RS So to me Shea Patterson in the late 3rd to 5th round range would be a good value and he is better than ever quarterback listed here. Sure one can get some bad clips of him, you can do that to almost any QB if you really want to. He is athletic, he has played under center, he is not pass happy and needs 40 attempts to succeed and is fine if the team rushes the football. Played very good in awful weather against Notre Dame, the Notre Dame QBs cannot say that, Jake Fromm cannot either, he was terrible in the rain a few weeks back. He can get away from pressure with his athletic ability and I think is willing to be a backup and develop without causing a problem. Rather have Stanley who is a statue in the pocket, Montez who is terribly inaccurate, Francois who is a pretty big disappointment and has off the field issues and Tate who I would not mind but I do question his accuracy and release a lot, not to mention his ability to stay healthy. So outside of Tua, Herbret, Burrow, Eason, Love, Fromm and maybe Hurts there is not a ton of options in the later rounds possibly. And with how the CBs have looked this year and the need for DT talent and OT/OG talent drafting a QB 1st or 2nd round does not make a bunch of sense honestly. Patterson could be a nice steal late and would not cost much and if he does not turn out no big deal. Not sure they would be willing to gamble on a great arm talent in Eason in the 1st round when the team is built to win now. To say Patterson will not be drafted is a little ridiculous I feel, sure he has looked bad at times but is playing better and knows how to take a back seat at times to the run game and play under center and handle the football. Considering the 2nd tear options at QB in the draft he is easily one of the better ones. The highest number of qbs taken in a draft in the last 15 years is 15 (2016) and I've seen Patterson somewhere in the neighborhood of the mid-teens to mid-20s among the QBs that are eligible for this draft. He's borderline draftable at best. I wouldn't touch him before the 7th round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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