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Can we form the 1st and 2nd all bust team from 2000-2019?


Kiwibrown

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My second team QB nomination is johnny manzeil. 

22nd pick for the browns in 2014. Not a high draft pick, rather a draft pick that got high. 

Some fail because they dont have it, some fail because they dont want it, that is johnny manziel. 

He managed to take over the reigns for a strong browns team in 2014 and really put a dagger in it with abysmal play. And really wasted some of joe Thomas' last prime years. 

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Can't think of a suitable tight end, Ebron would have been the closest before last year. They have a crazy high bust % in the 2nd round, but the 1st round guys tend to stay around a while at least. 

 

QB. JaMarcus Russell - Raiders - 1st Overall 2007
RB. Trent Richardson - Browns - 3rd Overall 2012
WR. Kevin White - Bears - 7th Overall 2015
WR. Troy Williamson - Vikings - 7th Overall 2007
WR. Justin Blackmon - Jaguars  -  5th Overall 2012
TE. ?    
OT. Jason Smith - Rams - 2nd Overall 2009
OT. Levi Brown - Cardinals - 5th Overall 2007
OG. Jonathan Cooper - Cardinals - 7th Overall 2013
OG. Danny Watkins - Eagles - 23rd Pick 2011
C. Chris Spencer - Seahawks - 26th Pick 2005
     
DE. Vernon Gholston - Jets - 6th Overall 2008
DE. Gaines Adams - Buccaneers - 4th Overall 2007
DT. Amobi Okoye - Texans - 10th Overall 2007
DT. Sedrick Ellis - Saints - 7th Overall 2008
LB. Aaron Curry - Seahawks  -  4th Overall 2005
LB. Rolando McClain - Raiders - 8th Overall 2010
CB. Justin Gilbert - Browns  -  8th Overall 2014
CB. Dee Milliner - Jets - 9th Overall 2013
CB. Tye Hill - Rams - 15th Overall 2006
S. Matt Elam - Ravens - 32nd Overall 2013
S. Calvin Pryor - Jets - 18th Overall 2014
     
P BJ Sander - Packers - 87th Overall 2004
K Roberto Aguayo - Buccaneers - 59th Overall 2016
 

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More or less stuck with first rounders, unless there weren't many standouts there (TE, for instance, has surprisingly few true busts in the first round. Some of your least productive first round TEs still spent like a decade as solid blocking options at a #2 spot.) Tried to weigh a mix of draft position and severity of bust. So a few cases where I picked low 1st round guys who did literally nothing whatsoever over higher picks who at least had a season or two of production, or maybe a long career as a backup.

I'm sure I missed some obvious ones in this. My methodology wasn't perfect, and probably resulted in me giving too much credit to guys who were able to accrue stats and starts over time while being a bust, or missing guys who busted for the team that drafted them but went on to semi-successful careers later (someone like Mark Barron, for instance.)

 

First Team: 

QB: Jamarcus Russell
RB: Trent Richardson
WR: Charles Rogers
WR: R. Jay Soward
TE: Richard Quinn (second rounder, but 1 catch for 9 yards for his career)
OT: Jason Smith
OG: Danny Watkins
OC: Cameron Erving (even though he's an okay G now)
OG: Jonathan Cooper
OT: Derek Sherrod (lower pick, but 1 career start? Really?)

DE: Vernon Gholston
DT: Ryan Sims
DT: Johnathan Sullivan
DE: Dion Jordan
OLB: Aaron Curry
MLB: Rolando McClain
OLB: Larry English
CB: Justin Gilbert
S: Matt Elam
S: Karl Joseph (Maybe too soon? He still is in the league. But it doesn't sound great, from what Raider fans have told me.)
CB: Dee Milliner

K: Robert Aguayo (lol)
P: Travis Dorsch

I want to actually talk about Travis Dorsch for a moment. There are higher profile busts, or at least over-drafted players, at punter than Dorsch. B.J. Sander or Bryan Anger will definitely be guys that come to mind first. But this guy has a borderline unbreakable NFL record. The bad kind, not the good kind. If that isn't obvious. Dorsch played one career game, filling in for Nick Harris who was injured (because losing a punter to injury is just the kind of thing that would happen to the 2002 Cincinatti Bengals.) That game would be a 51 - 32 loss to the Carolina Panthers. Dorsch kicked his only 5 career punts in that game, and the results were, in order, a 37 yard punt returned for a 61 yard touchdown, a 28 yard punt for no return, a 46 yard punt returned for an 87 yard touchdown, a 41 yard punt returned for 5 yards, and a 10 yard punt with no return. Only one of these was really an even remotely acceptable result for an NFL punter. In total, this meant Dorsch had 5 punts for 162 yards, a whopping 32.4 yard average. Those 5 punts were returned for a total of 153 yards, an average of 30.6 yards per return. This means Dorsch's career net yards per punt adds up to an unbelievable 1.8 yards per punt. You're basically better off running a dive play and turning the ball over on downs than you are having Travis Dorsch punt the football for your team.

 

Second Team: 

QB:  David Carr
RB: Trung Candidate 
WR: Troy Williamson
WR: David Terrell (HM: Justin Blackmon)
TE: Troy Niklas (I might be biased on this one because I really didn't like him as a prospect, but again, no real TEs that were clear first round busts, so here's another 2nd rounder)
OT: Greg Robinson (Rams shouldn't do top 5 LTs)
OG: Bruce Nelson (G was another pretty safe first round position, so we go with a terrible second rounder instead)
OC: Peter Konz (another safe position in the first)
OG: Toniu Fonoti (Several guys pretty close for this spot, gave Fonoti bonus points for how much hype I remember around him)
OT: Ereck Flowers (HM: Chris McIntosh)

DE: Jerome McDougle (Dude was bad luck in human form)
DT: Justin Harrell
DT: John McCargo
DE: Jamal Reynolds (HM: Gaines Adams)
OLB: Bobby Carpenter
MLB: Jonas Mouton (MLB another pretty safe one in the first, but it's hard to do worse than 1 career tackle, even as a second rounder)
OLB: Barkevious Mingo (HM: Cody Brown, taken 63rd, but never saw the field)
CB: Willie Middlebrooks
S: Calvin Pryor
S: Ras I-Dowling (1 pick outside the first round, but more than bad enough to make up for that)
CB: Rashard Anderson (HM to Stanley Jean-Baptiste, who amazingly is still on an NFL roster right now)

K: Jeff Chandler
P: B.J. Sander

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QB you could make a case for 5-6 guys after Russell all deserving of 2nd team status.  Russell takes the cake for sure given 1.1 status and his quick bust, but Manziel, EJ Manuel, Paxton Lynch and Brandon Weeden didn't even provide more than 1 season of starts, and in JFF/Lynch/Weeden's case, they were all gone by their 3rd year and didn't make an impact anywhere else.  That's uniformly awful for any 1st round pick to not make it through their 1st contract, and be forgotten so soon..  I'm tempted to throw Jake Locker & Christian Ponder in, but at least they actually started a couple of seasons as the main guy.

Edited by Broncofan
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Chance Warmack ought to be considered for a guard spot over Watkins IMO.  I know Watkins busted harder, but Warmack was a top 10 pick and became a depth player.

Andre Woolfolk could be a consideration at corner.  That's all I got for the Titans, unless you want to throw 2nd rounder Bishop Sankey into the mix for being the first RB off the board that year.

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OT Robert Gallery
OT Jason Smith
OG Danny Watkins
DE Dion Jordan
DE Aaron Maybin
OLB Vernon Gholston
WR Troy Williamson
WR Charles Rogers
WR Justin Blackmon
WR Mike Williams

Just a shot at TE's, Kellen WInslow @ 6, Bubba Franks @ 14, Rickey Dudley @ 9
 

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6 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

S: Karl Joseph (Maybe too soon? He still is in the league. But it doesn't sound great, from what Raider fans have told me.)

Joseph isn't bad by any means. He hasn't been worth where we selected him, but he's a capable starter in the NFL. We most likely upgraded him with Abram but I would have been fine with rolling with him longer.

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As for the rest, pretty much just look at a list of Raider picks of the past couple decades...

 

  • 2000   Sebastian Janikowski    PK    Florida State    
  • 2001    Derrick Gibson    DB    Florida State    
  • 2002    Phillip Buchanon    DB    Miami, Napoleon Harris    LB    Northwestern    
  • 2003    Nnamdi Asomugha    DB    California, Tyler Brayton    DE    Colorado    
  • 2004    Robert Gallery    T    Iowa    
  • 2005    Fabian Washington    DB    Nebraska    
  • 2006    Michael Huff    DB    Texas    
  • 2007    JaMarcus Russell*    QB    LSU    
  • 2008     Darren McFadden    RB    Arkansas    
  • 2009    Darrius Heyward-Bey    WR    Maryland    
  • 2010    Rolando McClain    LB    Alabama    
  • 2011    —    No pick    —    —    
  • 2012    —    No pick    —    —    
  • 2013    D. J. Hayden    DB    Houston    
  • 2014    Khalil Mack    LB    Buffalo    
  • 2015    Amari Cooper    WR    Alabama    
  • 2016    Karl Joseph    S    West Virginia    
  • 2017    Gareon Conley    CB    Ohio State    
  • 2018    Kolton Miller    T    UCLA    
  • 2019    Clelin Ferrell    DE    Clemson, Josh Jacobs, RB    Alabama, Johnathan Abram    S    Mississippi State

Who could rival this list of brutalness? Browns?

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Offensive line:

OT: Luke Joeckel: I was tempted to put Robert Gallery here, but at least he ended up being a decent guard. Joeckel sucked everywhere he went and the better tackle, Lane Johnson, was selected just a couple of picks later.

OT: Jason Smith: Remember when everyone thought Detroit should have picked him or Aaron Curry over Stafford?

OG: Danny Watkins: Being a cool story doesn't bar him from being a total dud at guard. If Andy Reid can't turn you into an at least functional offensive lineman, you have problems.

OG: Jonathan Cooper: Sad the way things went for him, but injuries doesn't excuse busting on a guard picked in the top 10.

C: Cameron Erving: Has turned into a not horrible guard, but he was an absolutely disaster at center. One of the biggest lowlights of the failed Farmer era.

Edited by Elky
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7 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

Man BJ Sander is an all-time name

Impressed that you dug that one out
And GB traded UP to get him at pick # 87 because the HC/GM Mike Sherman was worried about somebody jumping in front of him for Sanders...

 

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1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said:

As for the rest, pretty much just look at a list of Raider picks of the past couple decades...

 

  • 2000   Sebastian Janikowski    PK    Florida State    
  • 2001    Derrick Gibson    DB    Florida State    
  • 2002    Phillip Buchanon    DB    Miami, Napoleon Harris    LB    Northwestern    
  • 2003    Nnamdi Asomugha    DB    California, Tyler Brayton    DE    Colorado    
  • 2004    Robert Gallery    T    Iowa    
  • 2005    Fabian Washington    DB    Nebraska    
  • 2006    Michael Huff    DB    Texas    
  • 2007    JaMarcus Russell*    QB    LSU    
  • 2008     Darren McFadden    RB    Arkansas    
  • 2009    Darrius Heyward-Bey    WR    Maryland    
  • 2010    Rolando McClain    LB    Alabama    
  • 2011    —    No pick    —    —    
  • 2012    —    No pick    —    —    
  • 2013    D. J. Hayden    DB    Houston    
  • 2014    Khalil Mack    LB    Buffalo    
  • 2015    Amari Cooper    WR    Alabama    
  • 2016    Karl Joseph    S    West Virginia    
  • 2017    Gareon Conley    CB    Ohio State    
  • 2018    Kolton Miller    T    UCLA    
  • 2019    Clelin Ferrell    DE    Clemson, Josh Jacobs, RB    Alabama, Johnathan Abram    S    Mississippi State

Who could rival this list of brutalness? Browns?

Yes Browns would top 

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