Official 2020 WR Thread

[jrry32]

5 hours ago, Epyon said:

Hand timed, and the camera angle did no favors in being able to frame by frame the video and get a better reading.

That said, it's worth noting (in Reagor's defense) that he came into the combine heavy, AND STILL absolutely crushed jumping tests, demonstrating elite explosion while carrying extra weight. I'm not sure you can really make a clear argument that Reagor isn't actually at their level when he's actually the proper weight, without better more comparative testing.

 

 

Also fwiw "Jalen Reagor hit 22.6 MPH last season... KJ Hamler hit 21.76 MPH in 2018.

Tyreek Hill's three fastest recorded speeds: 21.95, 21.78, 21.64"

Hamler's speed is good-great..... but to say he's faster than Reagor in pads isn't accurate..... nor is he imo, worth the risk given his tiny stature.  I'm still on the fence about Reagor overall as a prospect, vs him just being a stellar athlete, but Hamler is a guy I'd be strongly opposed to as it stands. Not that it matters, as Reagor looks like he'll be well off the board on athletic potential alone before my Bears pick at 43/50.

Hamler is much faster than Reagor. You're conflating max speed with football speed. I expect it's quite rare to hit max speed on a football field during the game. Hamler is a lot more explosive because of his much superior acceleration. Both guys played against Ohio State in 2018. Go back and watch the games one after another. It's very easy to see Hamler is far faster in terms of football speed. Reagor may have a step once both reach their absolute top speed, but Hamler gets there so much faster that he's going to win the race in almost all football-relevant scenarios.

[CWood21]

21 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Corey Coleman really made me skeptical of Baylor WR's. Athletically he had everything you could want in a WR. He had exceptional quickness and even looked to utilize it well in the limited route tree he ran at Baylor, but never panned out in the NFL. I don't think I'd take Mims in the 1st round and would even be hesitant in the 2nd round at this point given how hard it is to evaluate WR's in that system. He undoubtedly has excellent athleticism but it's hard to tell how refined he will be for the next level. I kind of get the feeling he is another Ashley Lelie 

Between this and @badgers0821's take, I think you missed a huge scandal...this is the same line of thinking that would have had you guys pass over Saquon Barkley fwiw.

[jrry32]

6 hours ago, battle2heaven said:

Back to Higgins, are people that have Mims over Higgins because of the senior bowl and combine testing numbers?

I think there's a legitimate reason to prefer Mims. They're different sorts of players. If he maxes out his potential, Mims is more like Michael Thomas or Terrell Owens. He's big and athletic, but he also has the potential to be a devastatingly good route runner and separator on short to intermediate routes because of his quickness, size, physicality, and catch radius. Higgins will be more like Mike Evans or A.J. Green. He'll absolutely feast in the intermediate and deep ranges and can be nearly uncoverable one on one on deep balls, but he doesn't have the potential in the short passing game that Mims does. Ultimately, if both maximize their potential, Mims should be the better player, but I prefer Higgins because I think he's more likely to max out his potential than Mims (if that makes sense).

5 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I mean, Mims was every bit of productive as Higgins has.

In overall career numbers, yes. Over the past two years, no.

[jrry32]

7 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Between this and @badgers0821's take, I think you missed a huge scandal...this is the same line of thinking that would have had you guys pass over Saquon Barkley fwiw.

It doesn't even make sense. Mims starred under Matt Rhule, who is now in the NFL. Corey Coleman starred under Art Briles. They're two completely different systems.

Edited April 11, 2020 by jrry32

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

In overall career numbers, yes. Over the past two years, no.

The implication that Mims was essentially a 1-year wonder while Higgins had posted 4 years of production.  Higgins is a complete unknown from an athletic standpoint, where as Mims probably performed better than most thought he would.  Given the state of this WR class, I'd feel comfortable putting quite a bit of money on Mims going before Higgins.  Higgins could be in for a long wait.

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

It doesn't even make sense. Mims starred under Matt Rhules, who is now in the NFL. Corey Coleman starred under Art Briles. They're two completely different systems.

Bad logic is bad logic.

[badgers0821]

3 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

It doesn't even make sense. Mims starred under Matt Rhules, who is now in the NFL. Corey Coleman starred under Art Briles. They're two completely different systems.

I guess we will see in the next few years.

[jrry32]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

The implication that Mims was essentially a 1-year wonder while Higgins had posted 4 years of production.  Higgins is a complete unknown from an athletic standpoint, where as Mims probably performed better than most thought he would.  Given the state of this WR class, I'd feel comfortable putting quite a bit of money on Mims going before Higgins.  Higgins could be in for a long wait.

I can respect that. I'd go the opposite direction. But that's because I've always been one who thinks film trumps testing. I look for traits that will translate to the NFL. I think Higgins is an easier projection.

[badgers0821]

The fact or the matter is everyone on this site falls in love with plenty of players, gets overexcited about others, and thinks 100 players are all going to to be All-Pro, it is what it is. Where players get drafted doesn’t matter, how their careers play out does.

[CWood21]

Since I'm sure nobody has peaked at my draft thread (or me since a few weeks ago), here's my WR rankings in tiers.

1st Round Grade
1.) CeeDee Lamb [WR; Oklahoma]
2.) Jerry Jeudy [WR; Alabama]
3.) Henry Ruggs III [WR; Alabama]

2nd Round Grade
4.) Denzel Mims [WR; Baylor]
5.) Justin Jefferson [WR; LSU]
6.) Jalen Reagor [WR; TCU]
7.) Laviska Shenault [WR; Colorado]
9.) Brandon Aiyuk [WR; Arizona State]
10.) Tee Higgins [WR; Clemson]

3rd Round Grade
11.) Van Jefferson [WR; Florida]
12.) Donovan Peoples-Jones [WR; Michigan]
13.) Chase Claypool [WR/TE; Notre Dame]
14.) K.J. Hill [WR; Ohio State]

4th Round Grade
15.) Tyler Johnson [WR; Minnesota]
16.) Lynn Bowden [WR; Kentucky]
17.) Michael Pittman [WR; USC]
18.) Bryan Edwards [WR; South Carolina]
19.) KJ Hamler [WR; Penn State]

5th Round Grade
20.) Antonio Gandy-Golden [WR; Liberty]
21.) Collin Johnson [WR; Texas]
22.) Isaiah Hodgins [WR; Oregon State]
23.) Devin Duvernay [WR; Texas]
 

[CWood21]

3 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I can respect that. I'd go the opposite direction. But that's because I've always been one who thinks film trumps testing. I look for traits that will translate to the NFL. I think Higgins is an easier projection.

Testing should confirm what the tape shows.  Not the other way around.  If the roles were reversed, where would we be standing?  Would people be trumping Higgins if he were on Baylor's roster?  Would Mims be a top-5 pick if he were a Tiger?

[jrry32]

10 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Testing should confirm what the tape shows.  Not the other way around.  If the roles were reversed, where would we be standing?  Would people be trumping Higgins if he were on Baylor's roster?  Would Mims be a top-5 pick if he were a Tiger?

I don't know what people would do. Higgins and Mims switching teams wouldn't make a lick of difference for me. My rankings of them would be the same. And no, Mims wouldn't be a top 5 pick if he played for Clemson.

[Calvert28]

16 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

The implication that Mims was essentially a 1-year wonder while Higgins had posted 4 years of production.  Higgins is a complete unknown from an athletic standpoint, where as Mims probably performed better than most thought he would.  Given the state of this WR class, I'd feel comfortable putting quite a bit of money on Mims going before Higgins.  Higgins could be in for a long wait.

I kept saying since last year that he was the best WR prospect in college football, if the coaching staff had even added so much as a slant to his route tree he would be the favorite to be the 1st WR off the board.

I know that bit of sarcasm is going to make some laugh. But I've stood by my comments on him. Mims may very well go to GB, Philly, or even Dallas and will be the most productive receiver in this draft class because of it. 

 

[Calvert28]

3 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I don't know what people would do. Higgins and Mims switching teams wouldn't make a lick of difference for me. My rankings of them would be the same. And no, Mims wouldn't be a top 5 pick if he played for Clemson.

I disagree with this, the biggest question with Mims has been nothing athletically, gameplay or character. It's been the amount of busted Baylor receivers that have been drafted. If he was at a college that allowed him to showcase his elite talent in various ways like a Bama linebacker, or a OSU D-Linemen, then I have no doubt in my mind he would be considered for the top 5. 

[jrry32]

Just now, Calvert28 said:

I disagree with this, the biggest question with Mims has been nothing athletically, gameplay or character. It's been the amount of busted Baylor receivers that have been drafted. If he was at a college that allowed him to showcase his elite talent in various ways like a Bama linebacker, or a OSU D-Linemen, then I have no doubt in my mind he would be considered for the top 5. 

You're living in a fantasy if you think NFL teams care about that. Do you think NFL FOs don't know Matt Rhule? Mims has plenty of issues that are going to result in him being drafted somewhere between the third and sixth WR in this stacked WR class. It's not because he didn't run enough slants, didn't post eye-popping enough numbers, and did play for Baylor. Justin Jefferson posted the best numbers of any Power-Five WR in the country in 2019 (who is draft eligible). He's unlikely to be the first WR taken (and could get drafted after Mims).