2020 Draft Thread

[J-ALL-DAY]

So Simms doubled down yesterday during his Q & A that he doesn't think Jeudy is someone Shanahan would be a huge fan of. Also brought up something interesting that he doesn't always care about just how good of a route runner someone is or the type of routes that WR ran in college. He looks at physical ability and said a WR can be taught how to run routes, but the speed/explosiveness/etc cannot be taught. Okay, so he is partly right but not every WR is going to become a good route runner regardless of the coaching. But I do think this is one of the reasons Metcalf was overlooked last season and flat out disrespected. That's a good example of someone that doesn't have to have a full route tree to be successful in the league and can win in other ways. But then I want to know why he rates Jefferson higher than Jeudy when he is pretty much a similar athlete with similar measurables? Not like he is some supreme explosive athlete or something. I do agree with his point on that Shanahan probably will like Ruggs ability for what he is able to do and stretch the field. I think all fans are in agreement there. Personally? Seems like I rate Reagor higher than a lot of people including Simms. I mean from what Simms likes from his WRs, I am curious to see why he doesn't have him in his top six (Jeudy is #6). Why Higgins over Reagor? 

Hamler is someone I have not watched yet but seems like a lot of people like him. 

[NinerNation21]

10 hours ago, Forge said:

 

I didn't know much about Ben Bartch other than his last name sounds like an old western villain, so I looked at his scouting report on TDN and I actually like him quite a bit. 

Despite playing for a smaller school, he's lauded for his football IQ. He's pretty long (6'6 308) and he's a pretty good athlete. He's considered a "high-end developmental" tackle, which I guess means he's still a little rough around the edges, but isn't that far away from being useful. TDN considers him a year away from being a solid starting tackle. He's more of a technician with athleticism than a brute mauler. Sounds right for our system.

I've seen Bartch go anywhere from the 3rd to the 4th, but according to this tweet, he may sneak into round 2. 

 

[757-NINER]

9 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

So Simms doubled down yesterday during his Q & A that he doesn't think Jeudy is someone Shanahan would be a huge fan of. Also brought up something interesting that he doesn't always care about just how good of a route runner someone is or the type of routes that WR ran in college. He looks at physical ability and said a WR can be taught how to run routes, but the speed/explosiveness/etc cannot be taught. Okay, so he is partly right but not every WR is going to become a good route runner regardless of the coaching. But I do think this is one of the reasons Metcalf was overlooked last season and flat out disrespected. That's a good example of someone that doesn't have to have a full route tree to be successful in the league and can win in other ways. But then I want to know why he rates Jefferson higher than Jeudy when he is pretty much a similar athlete with similar measurables? Not like he is some supreme explosive athlete or something. I do agree with his point on that Shanahan probably will like Ruggs ability for what he is able to do and stretch the field. I think all fans are in agreement there. Personally? Seems like I rate Reagor higher than a lot of people including Simms. I mean from what Simms likes from his WRs, I am curious to see why he doesn't have him in his top six (Jeudy is #6). Why Higgins over Reagor? 

Hamler is someone I have not watched yet but seems like a lot of people like him. 

Hamler is a second rate Reagor imo. And he's nearly 20 lbs lighter. 

I mean I understand his stance but there are plenty of examples of physically gifted @WRs who did absolutely nothing at the next level. It's a nuanced position and there's more to it than just being bigger, stronger and faster than everyone else. There's a reason Hopkins, despite being the very kind of WR he's knocking Jeudy for being, is elite at his position. Jeudy can become a more physical WR. He will have to. That's not something that's uncommon for young WRs to lack. But you can't possibly look at film of Higgins and Jeudy and tell me that because Higgins is bigger and stronger and can win more jump balls that he's a better prospect. Nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion but that's just sounds absurd to me.

[J-ALL-DAY]

2 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Hamler is a second rate Reagor imo. And he's nearly 20 lbs lighter. 

I mean I understand his stance but there are plenty of examples of physically gifted @WRs who did absolutely nothing at the next level. It's a nuanced position and there's more to it than just being bigger, stronger and faster than everyone else. There's a reason Hopkins, despite being the very kind of WR he's knocking Jeudy for being, is elite at his position. Jeudy can become a more physical WR. He will have to. That's not something that's uncommon for young WRs to lack. But you can't possibly look at film of Higgins and Jeudy and tell me that because Higgins is bigger and stronger and can win more jump balls that he's a better prospect. Nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion but that's just sounds absurd to me.

Simms doesn't think ANY WR with gifted physical ability will succeed but he looks at the type of physical ability and then the type of things they can do with the ball in their hands. It is perfectly fine to have that line of thinking, but just don't see how he is rating some of the WRs over Jeudy that have similar physical attributes. But we will see soon enough if he was accurate in his rankings and opinion on Jeudy or not. I mean he says he likes Jeudy and has him ranked #6 in a stacked WR class, but just doesn't think he is a sure fire top 15 level player. 

Reagor and Aiyuk seem like two WRs that will get slept on and then two or three years down the line will have people wondering how they fell as low as they did. 

[Ftn49]

1 minute ago, 757-NINER said:

Hamler is a second rate Reagor imo. And he's nearly 20 lbs lighter. 

I mean I understand his stance but there are plenty of examples of physically gifted @WRs who did absolutely nothing at the next level. It's a nuanced position and there's more to it than just being bigger, stronger and faster than everyone else. There's a reason Hopkins, despite being the very kind of WR he's knocking Jeudy for being, is elite at his position. Jeudy can become a more physical WR. He will have to. That's not something that's uncommon for young WRs to lack. But you can't possibly look at film of Higgins and Jeudy and tell me that because Higgins is bigger and stronger and can win more jump balls that he's a better prospect. Nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion but that's just sounds absurd to me.

His bigger point and something I brought up a week ago is Juedy doesn't have explosive traits. It was also brought up that Juedy routinely went up against teams third corner because people were more worried about Devonta Smith and Jalen Waddle. And he doesn't have that much RAC capability.

He also made a point of mentioning how Juedy would have been sixth on his list, so its not like he hates the guy he just values other things more.

[Ftn49]

2 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Simms doesn't think ANY WR with gifted physical ability will succeed but he looks at the type of physical ability and then the type of things they can do with the ball in their hands. It is perfectly fine to have that line of thinking, but just don't see how he is rating some of the WRs over Jeudy that have similar physical attributes. But we will see soon enough if he was accurate in his rankings and opinion on Jeudy or not. I mean he says he likes Jeudy and has him ranked #6 in a stacked WR class, but just doesn't think he is a sure fire top 15 level player. 

Reagor and Aiyuk seem like two WRs that will get slept on and then two or three years down the line will have people wondering how they fell as low as they did. 

Pretty much... Maybe he misspoke but the one thing that I really disagreed with him watching the ranking podcast was that he mentioned Aiyuk and Juedy were similar player types. I don't really see that at all. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

3 minutes ago, Ftn49 said:

His bigger point and something I brought up a week ago is Juedy doesn't have explosive traits. It was also brought up that Juedy routinely went up against teams third corner because people were more worried about Devonta Smith and Jalen Waddle. And he doesn't have that much RAC capability.

He also made a point of mentioning how Juedy would have been sixth on his list, so its not like he hates the guy he just values other things more.

I don't think teams worried about other WRs more than him. It was more of a case he lined up in the slot more and opposing teams outside corners aren't likely to move inside.

While he doesn't have EXPLOSIVE traits, he has ELUSIVE ability after the catch. That is something Simms fails to take into account IMO.

[757-NINER]

2 minutes ago, Ftn49 said:

His bigger point and something I brought up a week ago is Juedy doesn't have explosive traits. It was also brought up that Juedy routinely went up against teams third corner because people were more worried about Devonta Smith and Jalen Waddle. And he doesn't have that much RAC capability.

He also made a point of mentioning how Juedy would have been sixth on his list, so its not like he hates the guy he just values other things more.

RAC is kinda overblown in college. You know who was a RAC machine in college? Dante Pettis. And he's done absolutely nothing as pro thus far.

Like I said, I get where's he's coming from. I just don't agree when it comes to Jeudy. You're really going to sell me that Hamler is better than Jeudy? And if you like Hamler so much, where is Reagor, who is a bigger, stronger version Hamler and is just as fast and twitchy? Just doesn't add up to me...

[Ftn49]

Just now, J-ALL-DAY said:

I don't think teams worried about other WRs more than him. It was more of a case he lined up in the slot more and opposing teams outside corners aren't likely to move inside.

While he doesn't have EXPLOSIVE traits, he has ELUSIVE ability after the catch. That is something Simms fails to take into account IMO.

I mean its a matter of degrees, of course he has elusive ability after the catch he is a professional athlete but there is probably a dozen receivers in this draft you could say are better than him at that.

[Ftn49]

1 minute ago, 757-NINER said:

RAC is kinda overblown in college. You know who was a RAC machine in college? Dante Pettis. And he's done absolutely nothing as pro thus far.

Like I said, I get where's he's coming from. I just don't agree when it comes to Jeudy. You're really going to sell me that Hamler is better than Jeudy? And if you like Hamler so much, where is Reagor, who is a bigger, stronger version Hamler and is just as fast and twitchy? Just doesn't add up to me...

Pettis was also in the PAC 12 vs the SEC or in Hamlers case the Big 10. I only watched a couple snippets of Hamler and I don't really have an opinion on him vs Juedy. Just repeating what I gleaned from the video.

[J-ALL-DAY]

Just now, Ftn49 said:

I mean its a matter of degrees, of course he has elusive ability after the catch he is a professional athlete but there is probably a dozen receivers in this draft you could say are better than him at that.

Disagree, definitely not a dozen guys I've seen with more elusive ability than him. Just being a professional athlete doesn't equate to being elusive. He's not going to be a guy that catches the ball and will go down right then and there. Jeudy will make a lot of defenders miss on the initial contact. 

[757-NINER]

Just now, Ftn49 said:

Pettis was also in the PAC 12 vs the SEC or in Hamlers case the Big 10. I only watched a couple snippets of Hamler and I don't really have an opinion on him vs Juedy. Just repeating what I gleaned from the video.

But what I'm saying is the pundits raved about his RAC ability in college and it hasn't carried over to the pros. Its not a trait you can quantify as being something that carries over to the next level. 

[NinerNation21]

1 minute ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Disagree, definitely not a dozen guys I've seen with more elusive ability than him. Just being a professional athlete doesn't equate to being elusive. He's not going to be a guy that catches the ball and will go down right then and there. Jeudy will make a lot of defenders miss on the initial contact. 

For sure. Jeudy is a special receiver that creates crazy separation and is a human joystick in the open field. Those kinds of guys just don't come in droves from the college ranks.  

[Forge]

2 hours ago, 757-NINER said:

RAC is kinda overblown in college. You know who was a RAC machine in college? Dante Pettis. And he's done absolutely nothing as pro thus far.

Like I said, I get where's he's coming from. I just don't agree when it comes to Jeudy. You're really going to sell me that Hamler is better than Jeudy? And if you like Hamler so much, where is Reagor, who is a bigger, stronger version Hamler and is just as fast and twitchy? Just doesn't add up to me...

Agreed. The game is far more open, you see more teams rely on screens / verts, which are passes that accumulate RAC. Aiyuk is seen as a RAC guy...50% of his routes are screens or go routes. 

[Forge]

I'm not sure what the issue with Jeudy is. He has not a single red flag athletically; sure, he doesn't profile with elite athletic traits, but nothing that is super worrisome. The only minor complaint would be a moderately low college dominator score (which can be attributed somewhat to his team, to be honest), but his breakout age is really good, and that's a good. No production issues. I don't know that he's an elite talent or anything, but I think he's got a really nice floor. I don't see why he wouldn't profile as a Stefon Diggs type comparable.