Daniel Jones is looking better than Haskins

[jrry32]

2 hours ago, bzane said:

Well. Typically, as such discussions go, Jones vs. Haskins has lined up along regional, or team, boundaries. And that's to be expected. We all want our teams' young players to turn into stars. I will happily confess that, as a Giants' fan, Daniel Jones' play in training camp and pre-season has given me hope for his becoming a good NFL quarterback. From what I hear of Haskins, there's a lot of talent there that may well develop. They may both satisfy their respective teams. Time will tell.

But I will add the caveat that I have been educated several times, and schooled royally once (see "Goff, Jared"), by @jrry32 with his considerable football knowledge. I've learned to pay attention to his posts, and have learned from them. As I'm paying attention now. 

I have hope for Daniel Jones- but I'll listen to an expert opinion.

While I have pushed back on people's eagerness to announce a winner in the Haskins/Jones contest, I want to make clear that I'm not picking one myself. We have a long ways to go. I had Haskins ranked higher because I think he has a higher ceiling. But he's far from a sure thing. Jones is a safe pick. I think he'll be a starting caliber QB. I compared him to Alex Smith. I think he fits well in Shurmur's offense. I just don't know if he'll ever escape the area where Alex Smith and Andy Dalton spent their careers. Basically, good enough that you're not actively looking to replace him but not so good that you're opposed to replacing him if something better comes along.

[Midtown_Doornail]

 

 

 

1

18 hours ago, Broncofan said:

The point about the preseason is that success there means nothing in predicting reg season success.  Because of the talent gap present and simplicity of the schemes used.   Struggles against preseason D’s reliably tells us the player isn’t ready yet to succeed.  It doesn’t mean a career is lost in year 1 but it’s far more meaningful as a predictive tool than success is.  

Struggles against preseason D’s mean a guy isn’t ready to start week 1 and succeed.   But the opposite isn’t true - success doesn’t mean a player is ready to step in & succeed - the list of the most successful preseason QB’s each year shows this in spades.  This concept is well supported - but many casual fans don’t appreciate the distinction.    The fact #2 is being posted highlights this.   

Fine, and I assume all of the people mocking Giants fans as homers didn't jump on the bandwagon of calling Gettleman a moron before he even had one NFL practice?

Also, while what you say makes sense then quarterbacks would have the upper hand on the defense the scores would be pretty high in the preseason and that's not the case.

[Soggust]

Let me preface - I have not once questioned the Giants on taking Jones (I generally don't question picks as I don't invest the same amount of time/energy into scouting as other people and obviously the teams do).

With that being said, the Giants fans upset at the iTs JuSt ThE pReSeAsOn takes need to realize that people are saying that because - iTs JuSt ThE pReSeAsOn.

With that being said, THAT DOESN'T MEAN HE'S NOT ABLE TO BE GREAT. Jones and Haskins BOTH are unknowns at this point. People need to stop taking unknown as terrible or great or whatever their preconceived notions from the draft were. They are both literally just question marks at this point. They could end up being Mahomes or they could end up out of the league in two years. We just don't know until they face live, non-vanilla first-string defenses with the pressure of the regular season (and probably more than a year at that). 

We are just always so quick to rank people / put them into boxes.

[Gmen]

12 hours ago, bzane said:

But I will add the caveat that I have been educated several times, and schooled royally once (see "Goff, Jared"), by @jrry32 with his considerable football knowledge. I've learned to pay attention to his posts, and have learned from them. As I'm paying attention now. 

I have hope for Daniel Jones- but I'll listen to an expert opinion.

You have something on your nose.. it’s brown.

@jrry32’s take on Goff is as objective as my take on Jones. After the Rams traded up to #1, I asked him before the draft whether he preferred Goff or Wentz. He, not surprisingly, remained noncommittal until the Rams drafted Goff. And then it was ‘omg Goff is going to be so great!’ He would go on tears with anyone that questioned the selection, and not-so-subtly cite his credentials and the fact that he went to law school to try and establish some sort of intellectual superiority and prop up his argument. Maybe that does impress some posters. But hey, I have a masters degree in electrical engineering and I do research in artificial intelligence and machine learning. That doesn’t make me any less of a homer. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Gmen

[jrry32]

13 hours ago, Gmen said:

You have something on your nose.. it’s brown.

@jrry32’s take on Goff is as objective as my take on Jones. After the Rams traded up to #1, I asked him before the draft whether he preferred Goff or Wentz. He, not surprisingly, remained noncommittal until the Rams drafted Goff. And then it was ‘omg Goff is going to be so great!’ He would go on tears with anyone that questioned the selection, and not-so-subtly cite his credentials and the fact that he went to law school to try and establish some sort of intellectual superiority and prop up his argument. Maybe that does impress some posters. But hey, I have a masters degree in electrical engineering and I do research in artificial intelligence and machine learning. That doesn’t make me any less of a homer. 

What I love about the internet is the ability to produce time-stamped receipts when people make false accusations. Goff was my #1 QB. I never wavered from that. And I am happy to back that up:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=577710&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

It's the first post on the page. If you skip all the way to the bottom of my very long write up, I chose Goff. I posted that on April 20th. The Draft was on April 28th.

[ET80]

13 hours ago, Gmen said:

You have something on your nose.. it’s brown.

@jrry32’s take on Goff is as objective as my take on Jones. After the Rams traded up to #1, I asked him before the draft whether he preferred Goff or Wentz. He, not surprisingly, remained noncommittal until the Rams drafted Goff.

No dog in this fight - but this is absolutely, positively incorrect. 

[SkippyX]

I just reread the draft day thread in the Giants section. Everyone hated the pick but Gmen.

To use his own phrasing... His entire face is brown from how much he loves Daniel Jones.

Some other fans came around a bit to hopeful but this guy was full on Jones cultist. (he says since January)

Edited August 30, 2019 by SkippyX

[Forge]

The most concerning thing about this thread is the amount of positive things  that have been said about @jrry32

[Forge]

1 hour ago, ET80 said:

No dog in this fight - but this is absolutely, positively incorrect. 

Live look at ET's dog

[Hunter2_1]

On 28/08/2019 at 8:37 PM, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Oh yeah?

 

AND a better ratio.

It's all about ratio. 5000 likes on 85,000 posts is like Brady getting to 1000 run yards - longevity awards. You the MVP, dawg 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Hunter2_1

[Hunter2_1]

Just the read the whole thread (dissapointingly low level of Skins vs Giants flinging, but hey ho)

It can summed up like this;

@Gmen (correctly, IMO) rubbishes previously held notions that Jones had a weak arm. These takes were based on college tape, and it's not to say those were wrong takes at the time, it's just since the draft he has proven that, actually, he has a good arm. There is evidence of this in some dimes thrown. It's not Rodgers or Stafford or anything, but it's not weak.

In answer to this, a major card played is 'it's just the preseason'.

This annoys @Gmen because, whilst he is throwing against scrubs in the PS, you can actually still detect a good arm through mechanics, flight, placement etc. Therefore, everyone's main concern about Jones has turned out to be unfounded. This excites all G-men alike. You can BOTH be playing against crap and show off a strong arm. 

Bored at work. 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Hunter2_1

[Gmen]

43 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Just the read the whole thread (dissapointingly low level of Skins vs Giants flinging, but hey ho)

It can summed up like this;

@Gmen (correctly, IMO) rubbishes previously held notions that Jones had a weak arm. These takes were based on college tape, and it's not to say those were wrong takes at the time, it's just since the draft he has proven that, actually, he has a good arm. There is evidence of this in some dimes thrown. It's not Rodgers or Stafford or anything, but it's not weak.

In answer to this, a major card played is 'it's just the preseason'.

This annoys @Gmen because, whilst he is throwing against scrubs in the PS, you can actually still detect a good arm through mechanics, flight, placement etc. Therefore, everyone's main concern about Jones has turned out to be unfounded. This excites all G-men alike. You can BOTH be playing against crap and show off a strong arm. 

Bored at work. 

 

 

You pretty much nailed it. 

[SBLIII]

His back shoulder throws are insanely good.

[HTTRDynasty]

2 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Therefore, everyone's main concern about Jones has turned out to be unfounded. This excites all G-men alike. You can BOTH be playing against crap and show off a strong arm. 

Bored at work. 

Not sure where this straw man came from. Reading through draft profiles from reputable websites, I haven’t seen these “weak” arm knocks. Most say his arm strength is average or “good enough”. 

The most consistent knocks I’ve seen are his patting the ball too much and references to his poor decision-making, which really hasn’t been tested yet.  

[Hunter2_1]

2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Not sure where this straw man came from. Reading through draft profiles from reputable websites, I haven’t seen these “weak” arm knocks. Most say his arm strength is average or “good enough”. 

The most consistent knocks I’ve seen are his patting the ball too much and references to his poor decision-making, which really hasn’t been tested yet.  

You'd have to ask G. He spent most of this thread deflecting arguments about Jones' arm, so I just assumed these arguments weren't made up. 

I thought the main thing about Jones was just that he was taken too early.