Kicker saga continues, Bears cut all - only Piniero remains

[AZBearsFan]

1 hour ago, blkwdw13 said:

If Pinero happens to make every kick for the rest of the pre season games Windy will be singing his praises.

Hopefully we find out. I’m over the grass is always greener thing. That’s not meant to be specific to Windy either. 

[soulman]

Come on Sept. 5th......please hurry or we may another dozen PKs here for a kick off.

If the Panthers PK is such a hot commodity why didn't we have him in here last spring along with the others?

How many other rookie PKs are in other teams camps making kicks and did we overlook them too?

I'm with AZ.  We brought the two we felt had the best shot of kicking for us in 2019 to camp.  Let's let it play out over the next 3 weeks and see where we're at.  One of the two probably deserves a shot at starting the season on the roster.  If he screws the pooch the other guy will in all likelihood still be out there as will Slye and others who also got cut in favor of vets already on their teams.  I'm not in a panic.

[AZBearsFan]

58 minutes ago, soulman said:

Come on Sept. 5th......please hurry or we may another dozen PKs here for a kick off.

If the Panthers PK is such a hot commodity why didn't we have him in here last spring along with the others?

How many other rookie PKs are in other teams camps making kicks and did we overlook them too?

I'm with AZ.  We brought the two we felt had the best shot of kicking for us in 2019 to camp.  Let's let it play out over the next 3 weeks and see where we're at.  One of the two probably deserves a shot at starting the season on the roster.  If he screws the pooch the other guy will in all likelihood still be out there as will Slye and others who also got cut in favor of vets already on their teams.  I'm not in a panic.

I’ve been saying for weeks short of a complete bed crapping I think whichever guy doesn’t win our competition has a good chance to be on our PS unless he signs elsewhere. 

For all the high expectations for what our kicker should be I am frankly shocked that nobody seems to be riding the “Elliott Fry is 16/16 on kicks as a professional” train. Can he hit from 50+ in a game? I have no idea. But he’s never ever missed from 47 and in as a pro, so if you’re getting to the 30 yard line you’re coming away with points. That kind of consistency has so much value, and even if he’s a complete crap shoot beyond 47 (which may not even be the case) how is that not encouraging to people? We’re talking about REAL GAME kicks too, not practice. This is a guy ALREADY ON OUR ROSTER, and who also made all of his kicks on Thursday. But please, let’s hear more about the guy from Carolina about whom we know basically nothing. That seems logical. 🤦‍♂️ 

If Fry had the more live leg of the two kickers this competition might already be over. He can get stronger though and improve his distance over time. That’s exactly what Gould did. The year we went to the Super Bowl he didn’t attempt a single field goal over 50 yards. Not one! He didn’t make a single 50+ yard FG until his FIFTH year in the league! It’s all right here. 

[SteelKing728]

On 8/10/2019 at 10:15 PM, AZBearsFan said:

I think Vedvik is a really strong rookie kicking prospect and wouldn’t oppose bringing him in at all, but with that said if Fry makes every kick after showing well all training camp and/or if Pineiro makes his next 5 or so kicks without a miss the next 2 weeks after showing well all training camp the aesthetics of this whole kicking competition being much ado about nothing wouldn’t look good at all. Ultimately I don’t care so long as whatever this is ends up with us having a competent kicker in 2019 and ideally one who’s a long term option, but if our rookies perform well all month only to get dumped for another rookie with no NFL resume who has looked good all month but never kicked in a real game it isn’t going to ease the minds of anyone on Sundays and gives us exactly zero further assurance for having a competent 2019 kicker. Patience isn’t high on anyone’s list in this after how last year ended and that’s completely understandable, but despite that we have to have at least some patience with the kicker situation if our guy is going to be a kid and not an established veteran.

IMO, Daniel Carlson is an excellent example of why we need to have at least some patience with a young kicker. A bunch here liked him for us in the draft or as an UDFA prior to the Parkey signing, and I was one of them. He was drafted 5th round last year by MIN but went 0-3 on FG in week 2 and was immediately cut. He signed with Oakland shortly thereafter and proceeded to go 16-17 on FG and perfect on XP for the Raiders. I can’t speak for you guys but I would take Daniel Carlson as our kicker right now. Hell, he made Pineiro expendable to OAK and Pineiro was likely (IMO) to win that job last year before his preseason injury. Also of note - Carlson’s replacement in MIN, Dan Bailey, was just 21-28 on field goals and had a conversion percentage worse than that of Parkey despite playing his home games in a dome.

There wasn’t a single kicker in the league last year who was perfect (unless you count Tavecchio who kicked for 3 games in place of an injured Matt Bryant or Johnny Hekker who finished 1 game for Zeirlein for the Rams after an injury), so that certainly can’t be the standard to which we hold undrafted rookie kickers. Whoever our kicker is can’t get Parkey’s 11-miss rope by any stretch but Jesus they have to get a realistic shot. 

Carlson managed to fix his issue after his bad day in Green Bay. It was too late for him in Minnesota but it worked out great for Oakland.

He's a very tall kicker, which we don't see too often. Ended up that he needed to shorten his stride to get his kicks right.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/20/how-raiders-kicker-daniel-carlson-re-ignited-his-nfl-career/

Kickers need a lot of work on the right team I think to be good. Thankfully Minnesota reinvested in our K/P/LS and ST Coordinator recently. I'm just hoping it works out for us.

And I'm glad Vedvik is with us. I'd be so jealous if you guys got him with how talented your roster is!!

[malagabears]

9 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

EXACTLY. We brought in almost a dozen guys and have put them through a 6-month grinder and geared our entire offseason around trying to find the best of that group. Once we got down to the 2 guys who weren’t obviously woefully underqualified (as neither Fry or Pineiro are) IMO we have to let it play out and see what we got. If after given a real shot that guy proves to be unworthy THEN we should move on. We can’t just not give them the chance though. 

I'm not. I will be disappointed if we blow a game or two that comes down to a kick but oh well. This is my year to not get hung up on pure fandom emotion. Support the team but enjoy life as well.

[SteelKing728]

If Minnesota cuts Dan Bailey, do you think Chicago makes a move for him?

[beardown3231]

5 hours ago, SteelKing728 said:

If Minnesota cuts Dan Bailey, do you think Chicago makes a move for him?

I think Dan Bailey is about finished. Allegedly he had a back issue in Dallas and they cut him and perhaps he never recovered since he wasn't all that great with Minnesota.

[vike daddy]

5 hours ago, SteelKing728 said:

If Minnesota cuts Dan Bailey, do you think Chicago makes a move for him?

i think that would be pretty bad PR move on the Bears' part. both Minny and Da Bearz need a young kicker they can rely on for the years to come, not a stop gap.

[GOGRIESE]

Seems both of our kickers didn't finish off camp all that well. They had a hot start and that quickly turned bad. I expect they'll get one more game before getting the boot. 

[GBHalas]

I've thought about this for awhile, and I truly hope we have our kicker for the immediate future on the squad right now.  I don't have a dog in the fight and hope that the best guy wins and makes the kicks when asked.  As far as trading for Slye or Vedvik it would be absolutely stupid to give away a pick.  I'm not saying these guys don't have value but these guys are kicking for teams with established kickers already on the team.  In about two weeks that will be let go, placed on the practice squad, or put on the roster.  On two of the situations we can get them without giving up a draft pick, and if they are put on the roster to protect them and potentially trade for them it causes their team to release an another skilled position player, hurting their team.  

If/when Slye or Vedvik are released, I'm all for bringing them to compete, but until then hopefully Frye or Pintero lock down the position

[GBHalas]

Just saw the Vikings just traded for Vedvik, guessed desperate teams do desperate things lol

[topwop1]

1 hour ago, GOGRIESE said:

Seems both of our kickers didn't finish off camp all that well. They had a hot start and that quickly turned bad. I expect they'll get one more game before getting the boot. 

Really it should all come down to what they do in the games, because doing one thing in practice vs doing it in an actual game is not the same thing.  You cannot simulate the pressure of kicking in a live competitive game in front of a big crowd.  To me neither guy was impressive in the opener but Pineiro shanking that kick did not do him any favors IMO.

That said the fact that these two guys haven't even been doing that well in TC and the rumors that Bears were interested in trading for Vedvik tells me that they are not just going to settle for either of these guys. 

I expect Pace to make a move to either add a vet or some other teams 2nd kicker before September 5th against the Packers.

Edited August 12, 2019 by topwop1

[AZBearsFan]

53 minutes ago, GOGRIESE said:

Seems both of our kickers didn't finish off camp all that well. They had a hot start and that quickly turned bad. I expect they'll get one more game before getting the boot. 

Read from Wiederer that Pineiro was 9/11 yesterday and finished camp converting at 84.2%. I don’t classify that as bad by any stretch. It’s not at the top of the league, but it represents a significant upgrade over 2018 too. 84.2% on FG would be a middle of the road kicker in most seasons in this decade. Fry’s percentage was a little lower (81.4%) but he’s also 16/16 in games as a pro. One was 48/57 and the other 48/59. That’s pretty close. 59 field goals is about a season and a half worth of FGs. 

Figuring 2 FGA per game - 84.2% translates to 26.9/32. 81.4% translates to 26.0/32. For comparison, in both 2016 and 2018 Stephen Gostkowski was 27/32 on FG. Jake Elliott has been 26/31 (83.9%) each of the past 2 seasons in PHI. Gostkowski just got $4.25M per in an extension and Elliott has no competition in PHI, both for teams with similar Super Bowl aspirations to ours. But our guy isn’t even worthy of even a regular season shot? C’mon.

At 84.2%, a middle of the road 2019 NFL kicker conversion rate, by simple math you’re going to miss about 1 FG out of every 6.5. That’s pretty frequent, even in this that is without question the golden age for NFL kicking efficiency. Kickers are going to miss sometimes. This isn’t Madden. We need to get past this fear of failure because allowing it to bleed into 2019 is only going to make things unnecessarily harder on the incumbent kicker in what is already a difficult and generally thankless job to begin with. 

This whole thing has gotten well beyond the point of ridiculous. 

(Sorry GG that my growing frustration with this issue got vented in my reply to your post) 

[GOGRIESE]

7 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

Read from Wiederer that Pineiro was 9/11 yesterday and finished camp converting at 84.2%. I don’t classify that as bad by any stretch. It’s not at the top of the league, but it represents a significant upgrade over 2018 too. 84.2% on FG would be a middle of the road kicker in most seasons in this decade. Fry’s percentage was a little lower (81.4%) but he’s also 16/16 in games as a pro. One was 48/57 and the other 48/59. That’s pretty close. 59 field goals is about a season and a half worth of FGs. 

Figuring 2 FGA per game - 84.2% translates to 26.9/32. 81.4% translates to 26.0/32. For comparison, in both 2016 and 2018 Stephen Gostkowski was 27/32 on FG. Jake Elliott has been 26/31 (83.9%) each of the past 2 seasons in PHI. Gostkowski just got $4.25M per in an extension and Elliott has no competition in PHI, both for teams with similar Super Bowl aspirations to ours. But our guy isn’t even worthy of even a regular season shot? C’mon.

At 84.2%, a middle of the road 2019 NFL kicker conversion rate, by simple math you’re going to miss about 1 FG out of every 6.5. That’s pretty frequent, even in this that is without question the golden age for NFL kicking efficiency. Kickers are going to miss sometimes. This isn’t Madden. We need to get past this fear of failure because allowing it to bleed into 2019 is only going to make things unnecessarily harder on the incumbent kicker in what is already a difficult and generally thankless job to begin with. 

This whole thing has gotten well beyond the point of ridiculous. 

(Sorry GG that my growing frustration with this issue got vented in my reply to your post) 

Oh it's fine AZ. The percentage is fine I think between them on the last day of camp though they missed 5 kicks in total that day. I like Fry and I think he can be competent. I'm not worried about his leg strength. It's just from what Matt Nagy was saying it didn't sound like he had much more patience. 

[soulman]

14 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

If Fry had the more live leg of the two kickers this competition might already be over. He can get stronger though and improve his distance over time. That’s exactly what Gould did. The year we went to the Super Bowl he didn’t attempt a single field goal over 50 yards. Not one! He didn’t make a single 50+ yard FG until his FIFTH year in the league! It’s all right here.

I'm not opposed to Fry at all.  I like the fact that he has been uber consistent in camp and in the AAF and 75%/99.4% FG/PAT in college.  We'll attempt far more kicks from under 50 yards than over 50 yards and he has hit from as far as 60 yards in camp.

My only question is based on him being from the South and having kicked in the South throughout his career.  Parkey was far better kicking in Miami than in Chicago so will Fry end up as another warm weather PK who can't handle Chicago in Nov.-Jan.?

Both guys are meeting my expectations so far.