turtle28 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, Woz said: I'm in favor of Haskins getting in game reps to "learn by doing/making mistakes" with two caveats: Not in those first five games. Not at all if the line ends up being as bad as it looks like. Yeah and I just don’t think it matters when it is. I don't care who it's against bc Haskins and our offense are going to have to face good and great defenses eventually anyways. Other rookie QBs have started behind crappier OLs than ours will be - even w/o - Trent and thrived/survived and developed just fine. My personal opinion is people are way overthinking this bc 4 of our first 5 games are against teams who will likely be playoff teams and; 1. I don't think it matters as much as other people do who he starts against; 2. I'd rather see Haskins play then Keenum and; 3. Haskins is going to have to take his lumps at some point whenever he first starts. I'd rather see him take those lumps in the beginning of the season and then be playing average or above the last 10 games then to see him take those lumps in the middle of the season. I think the quicker we get Haskins out there, the quicker he learns and develops into what we all hope is our franchise QB. I really don't want to see him handled with kid gloves and treated like a baby. We didn't do that with RG3, I don't know why we'd do it with Haskins now. Haskins may not have RG3’s mobility but he's certainly a better passer than RG3 is and a better passer than RG3 will ever be. I'm sorry, I just don't agree with the hesitation to play him and I'm not going to change my mind on it. You, Thai and others have written similar responses to my thoughts on this the past week and I’ve given pretty much the same response to each of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, turtle28 said: Haskins may not have RG3’s mobility but he's certainly a better passer than RG3 is and a better passer than RG3 will ever be. Why's that? He's still got some work to do too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, turtle28 said: Yeah and I just don’t think it matters when it is. I don't care who it's against bc Haskins and our offense are going to have to face good and great defenses eventually anyways. Very true, but if we can ease him into it as opposed to throwing him at the brick wall, that would be better, right? 1 hour ago, turtle28 said: Other rookie QBs have started behind crappier OLs than ours will be - even w/o - Trent and thrived/survived and developed just fine. Again, true, but wouldn't it be better to lower the risk of it going sideways? 1 hour ago, turtle28 said: I really don't want to see him handled with kid gloves and treated like a baby. We didn't do that with RG3, I don't know why we'd do it with Haskins now. You wrote that, and didn't think that maybe that should be a warning sign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, turtle28 said: 3. Haskins is going to have to take his lumps at some point whenever he first starts. I'd rather see him take those lumps in the beginning of the season and then be playing average or above the last 10 games then to see him take those lumps in the middle of the season. I think the quicker we get Haskins out there, the quicker he learns and develops into what we all hope is our franchise QB. I really don't want to see him handled with kid gloves and treated like a baby. We didn't do that with RG3, I don't know why we'd do it with Haskins now. Haskins may not have RG3’s mobility but he's certainly a better passer than RG3 is and a better passer than RG3 will ever be. I'm sorry, I just don't agree with the hesitation to play him and I'm not going to change my mind on it. You, Thai and others have written similar responses to my thoughts on this the past week and I’ve given pretty much the same response to each of them. Exactly. Everyone needs to remember that if Keenum is the starter, then Haskins is not taking many reps with the ones during practice. If we start Keenum, then you prepare him as best as possible. Sure Haskins can work on fundamentals and get mental reps, but that isn't the same as getting real reps. I don't understand this plan of waiting 5ish games. If we are planning to start him this season, just start him. What is going to happen in 5 games? Gruden's offense is in year 6. It should be ready now. If anything, Haskins will have more healthy players around him to help at the start of the season then 5 games in. To me you have to consider the benefit of the rookie wage scale. We have him for 4 years on the cheap. The goal should be to get production out of him during as much of that 4 years as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Wait, people really want to put Haskins in as a starter against Philly, Dallas and Chicago? With this OL? With his poor footwork under pressure? With his mistakes throughout preseason in making protection calls? Do people like seeing their QB get wrecked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Just now, HTTRDynasty said: Wait, people really want to put Haskins in as a starter against Philly, Dallas and Chicago? With this OL? With his poor footwork under pressure? With his mistakes throughout preseason in making protection calls? Do people like seeing their QB get wrecked? Because getting his feet wet against last year's playoff teams is the same as getting his feet wet against the Bills, Dolphins, and Jets! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Just now, Woz said: Because getting his feet wet against last year's playoff teams is the same as getting his feet wet against the Bills, Dolphins, and Jets! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I just don't get it. Have people never heard of Fletcher Cox, Brandon Graham, Derek Barnett, Demarcus Lawrence, Khalil Mack, Akiem Hicks, Leonard Floyd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: I just don't get it. Have people never heard of Fletcher Cox, Brandon Graham, Derek Barnett, Demarcus Lawrence, Khalil Mack, Akiem Hicks, Leonard Floyd? They're all interchangeable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 38 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: Wait, people really want to put Haskins in as a starter against Philly, Dallas and Chicago? With this OL? With his poor footwork under pressure? With his mistakes throughout preseason in making protection calls? Do people like seeing their QB get wrecked? You can't go into the season scared of other teams and bubble wrapping your players. We just take pressure off haskins and the oline by game planning properly. Pretty simple, we just run the ball 30 times a game and half the throws should just be quick game short passes and screen type stuff. Don't make him drop back for long developing plays but a few times a game until he and the oline settles in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, offbyone said: You can't go into the season scared of other teams and bubble wrapping your players. We just take pressure off haskins and the oline by game planning properly. Pretty simple, we just run the ball 30 times a game and half the throws should just be quick game short passes and screen type stuff. Don't make him drop back for long developing plays but a few times a game until he and the oline settles in. So instead, you go in hamstringing yourself by cutting the playbook in half? And "run the ball 30 times a game" is easier said than done. What happens when we are down 0-7, 0-14, 3-17? You still think we'll be on pace to run the ball 30 times a game when we have a negative game script? What do you think the other defenses will do when they know Haskins has to pass? Haskins' biggest issues are his mechanics and footwork, especially under pressure. You want him to develop bad habits in the pros going up against some of the best defenses in the league right off the bat? Because I can tell you for a fact, he will do what's natural for him footwork/mechanics-wise when faced with that pressure instead of doing what the coaches have been trying to drill him on all summer. As a result, we could easily ruin any chance we have at long-term prosperity at the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 50 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: So instead, you go in hamstringing yourself by cutting the playbook in half? And "run the ball 30 times a game" is easier said than done. What happens when we are down 0-7, 0-14, 3-17? You still think we'll be on pace to run the ball 30 times a game when we have a negative game script? What do you think the other defenses will do when they know Haskins has to pass? Haskins' biggest issues are his mechanics and footwork, especially under pressure. You want him to develop bad habits in the pros going up against some of the best defenses in the league right off the bat? Because I can tell you for a fact, he will do what's natural for him footwork/mechanics-wise when faced with that pressure instead of doing what the coaches have been trying to drill him on all summer. As a result, we could easily ruin any chance we have at long-term prosperity at the position. True enough. But you at least game plan it that way. Heck last year, we had one of the most unproductive offenses ever and we were still winning games. I just can't get on board with keeping him on the side line because our oline isn't optimal or the opponents might be better than us. He better get use to it. Rarely is everything optimal. Next year Scherff could have a major injury, then do we wait another year longer? There is no "right" time. There is no exact science to making sure a rookie qb succeeds. All I know is he is young, healthy and talented, why keep him on the shelf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 17 hours ago, offbyone said: I just can't get on board with keeping him on the side line because our oline isn't optimal or the opponents might be better than us. He better get use to it. Rarely is everything optimal. If it were only one or two games, then I would agree with you. However, that first five games is an ugly stretch, that then mellows out for a nice six game stretch afterwards. While it will never be optimal, it's probably much less optimal during weeks 1-5 than it would be during weeks 6-12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Woz said: If it were only one or two games, then I would agree with you. However, that first five games is an ugly stretch, that then mellows out for a nice six game stretch afterwards. While it will never be optimal, it's probably much less optimal during weeks 1-5 than it would be during weeks 6-12. Honestly it won't be until week 5ish that we even know what teams are for real in the nfl. You can't base anything off last year. Everyone knows that. So much changes from year to year. I get the concept and I am not trying to invalidate this point, but I just feel like the prediction game is flawed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, offbyone said: Honestly it won't be until week 5ish that we even know what teams are for real in the nfl. You can't base anything off last year. Everyone knows that. So much changes from year to year. I get the concept and I am not trying to invalidate this point, but I just feel like the prediction game is flawed. Not base anything on last year? Can I interest you in taking an under 8 wins bet on the Patriots? I get there's a strong possibility of regression to the mean/underperformance. But why would you think that the Eagles, Cowboys, Bears, and Patriots would suddenly be much worse than last year? I could understand maybe with the Cowboys having Cooper injured and Zeke holding out, but the other three? What's the logic there? What have you seen/read that makes you think they were just a flash in the pan and will fall back down this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Woz said: Not base anything on last year? Can I interest you in taking an under 8 wins bet on the Patriots? I get there's a strong possibility of regression to the mean/underperformance. But why would you think that the Eagles, Cowboys, Bears, and Patriots would suddenly be much worse than last year? I could understand maybe with the Cowboys having Cooper injured and Zeke holding out, but the other three? What's the logic there? What have you seen/read that makes you think they were just a flash in the pan and will fall back down this year? I won't take that bet But outside of the patriots, everything is a crap shoot. Do you wait 5 games because of one team? We have to play the eagles again at the end of the season, do you sit Haskins for that game? And again we play the cowboys at the end of the season when cooper and zeke situations are likely resolved and their defense is good. Should we plan on sitting him out then? Also, the giants will finally have healthy receivers by the end of the season and on paper , should we plan to sit him then? Essentially, your plan is to just play Haskins against the easy less scary teams? So just the Dolphins, Giants and the Niners is your plan? Oh wait, the niners have a good defense. So just the dolphins and giants? In between games, will he live in a cushioned room? Edited August 21, 2019 by offbyone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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