College Football and NFL Draft Discussion

BleedTheClock · January 23, 2020

7 hours ago, Mind Character said:

6.) What I thought was a sure-fire late round value guy Patrick Queen, LB LSU shows up in the 1st round top 20.

Yeah I thought he was a Sophomore for some reason. He's freaking good. Reminds me of Telvin Smith a little bit. Just a supreme athlete for an OLB, but isn't afraid to stick his nose in the fan like most of the "athletic" OLB's. He's a beast. I'd consider him if he slid to R2.

big poppa pump · January 23, 2020

"Confirmed" Mind Character IS Daniel Jeremiah......or........Mind Character is trying to assume his identity.

NudeTayne · January 23, 2020

1 hour ago, big poppa pump said:

"Confirmed" Mind Character's BIL is Daniel Jeremiah......or........Mind Character's BIL is trying to assume his identity.

This

AkronsWitness · January 23, 2020

4 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Passing on Julio wasn’t the problem.

Jabrill and a pro bowl corner in Ward...

Passing on Mack wasn’t the issue.

Using this absurd logic.... taking a player in the top 10 is going to be a hard pass from me.

I mean, we’ve whiffed on TRich, Mingo, Warren, Couch, Brown, Gilbert, etc.

When I said the issue wasn’t passing on those players, that’s a fact. The issue was then failing to identify and/or develop a player when we did pick.

In 2011, we could have taken Jordan, Wilkerson or Heyward, all of whom would have fit the mold of a 3-4 DL and would have been very good picks. Instead we chose Taylor.

In 2014, the NEXT NINE players AFTER Gilbert have been to a pro bowl, including names like OBJ, Donald and Lewan.

Again, it’s not as if we traded down to a spot where talent doesn’t exist, we just failed to identify it, which we also managed to do REPEATEDLY in the top 5-10.

If someone is offering an absurd deal, I’ll happily trade down. If not, I have no issue taking an OT at 10.

Passing on Julio and drafting Weeden and Phil Taylor wasn't a problem? Passing on a potential (and now) franchise QB for a DB wasn't a problem? I'm not seeing the rationale there.

The Browns have stayed in the top 10 and drafted talent like you said that busted but that's not a philosophy thing-- that's a Cleveland Browns are the worst drafting team in the NFL thing despite it being the correct move.

The Mingo pick was criticized, the Richardson pick was considered a reach and the Gilbert pick was also considered a massive reach.

The problem is when you keep trading down, you are taking overall less ready from day 1 guys and relying on development like you said. The idea is if you just stay at the top of the draft and select a consensus player, the less development he needs and therefore becomes more of a plug and play guy like Ward/Garrett.

big poppa pump · January 23, 2020

3 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Passing on Julio and drafting Weeden and Phil Taylor wasn't a problem? Passing on a potential (and now) franchise QB for a DB wasn't a problem? I'm not seeing the rationale there.

The Browns have stayed in the top 10 and drafted talent like you said that busted but that's not a philosophy thing-- that's a Cleveland Browns are the worst drafting team in the NFL thing despite it being the correct move.

The Mingo pick was criticized, the Richardson pick was considered a reach and the Gilbert pick was also considered a massive reach.

The problem is when you keep trading down, you are taking overall less ready from day 1 guys and relying on development like you said. The idea is if you just stay at the top of the draft and select a consensus player, the less development he needs and therefore becomes more of a plug and play guy like Ward/Garrett.

I agree 100% with staying put, and taking a swing on a guy you like at 10. I also agree that the trading down philosophy is one that I am usually not a fan of. However, what we do see ALL the time, is a kid that ends up outplaying their so-called draft position, and also conversely, kids that go high, and end up busting. The trade down "guys" will tell you that the more swings you get, the better chance you have at getting a hit.

pnies20 · January 23, 2020

Javon Kinlaw done for the week at the senior bowl. Tendinitis in his knee

AkronsWitness · January 23, 2020

15 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

I agree 100% with staying put, and taking a swing on a guy you like at 10. I also agree that the trading down philosophy is one that I am usually not a fan of. However, what we do see ALL the time, is a kid that ends up outplaying their so-called draft position, and also conversely, kids that go high, and end up busting. The trade down "guys" will tell you that the more swings you get, the better chance you have at getting a hit.

I get that but the problem is the Browns have done that for the better part of 15 years and outside of Joe Schobert and Rubin 8 years ago, I can't remember the Browns ever being able to draft volume and develop any sort of long-term starters.

The vast majority of the Browns current or previous 'good' players were either taken high in the 1st or traded for.

LETSGOBROWNIES · January 23, 2020

23 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Passing on Julio and drafting Weeden and Phil Taylor wasn't a problem? Passing on a potential (and now) franchise QB for a DB wasn't a problem? I'm not seeing the rationale there.

I mean, I spelled out spelled it out pretty clearly...

23 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

The Browns have stayed in the top 10 and drafted talent like you said that busted but that's not a philosophy thing-- that's a Cleveland Browns are the worst drafting team in the NFL thing despite it being the correct move.

Well if you can’t draft and have no clue what you’re doing, it doesn’t really matter where you pick does it?

Conversely, good teams rarely pick in the top 10 and do just fine.

23 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

The Mingo pick was criticized, the Richardson pick was considered a reach and the Gilbert pick was also considered a massive reach.

Lol wut? This is revisionist history at its finest.

23 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

The problem is when you keep trading down, you are taking overall less ready from day 1 guys and relying on development like you said. The idea is if you just stay at the top of the draft and select a consensus player, the less development he needs and therefore becomes more of a plug and play guy like Ward/Garrett.

This is true.

Of course if you need “ready from day 1 guys” in order to hit in picks, again, it doesn’t much matter as you’ll always stink.

LETSGOBROWNIES · January 23, 2020

2 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

I get that but the problem is the Browns have done that for the better part of 15 years and outside of Joe Schobert and Rubin 8 years ago, I can't remember the Browns ever being able to draft volume and develop any sort of long-term starters.

The vast majority of the Browns current or previous 'good' players were either taken high in the 1st or traded for.

And in that time our issue hasn’t been a lack of top picks.

MWil23 · January 23, 2020

A guy I want to see us draft is Josh Jones, OT Houston. He's having a great Senior Bowl, only gave up 4 pressures and 1/2 sack all YEAR, and he seems to have a great mentality:

Quote

“I just get the job done,” Jones said of his pass protection. “This year I let up four pressures… and a half a sack. I’m dominant at it. I take pride in it. If I give up a pressure, if I’m even close to (giving up) a sack, I’m kicking myself in the butt. It’s just pride. I feel like every O-lineman has that pride... Everybody can line up and play offensive line, but it’s a different mindset (to be elite). It’s a battle every single play, every single time you’re to war. You have to be on your Ps and Qs every single time. You can’t slip up. You have to be dominant.”

I REALLY hope that he falls to the 2nd and we can grab him, but after this week, he may shoot up the draft boards. I'd LOVE some type of bookend OT draft in Rounds 1/2, or even if we could get him and Simmons both.

Edited January 23, 2020 by MWil23